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You hit the mark on the film industries struggles. But I would say even in movies like Megamind the villain could be whiney and still be good and ruthless, its lack of competency or seriousness overall.
We need a movie where the Writers, Directors, Producers and other members who support them to be portrayed as Villains and the guy wins against them and makes them feel like they were the Baddies all along...
@highv priest I hate to start a battle over this, but the next movie was called "On Stranger Tides" and Henry wasn't involved with the story again until "Dead Men Tell No Tales." But I'm glad we agree that Elizabeth's story had little to do with Davy.
@Terrible T Yeah they had a token moment for a split second where Davy had to explain why he's allowed to hit a woman for 10 of the 20 seconds they fought, "You'll not see any mercy from me!". However I'll also mention that... Elizabeth did not become the pirate queen in At World's End. She stayed on land waiting for will Turner when he could next come to shore to meet their son Henry who was in the next movie Fountain of Youth.
@highv priest Actually, they clashed for about 15 seconds, but it didn’t even matter. Elizabeth’s story involved her becoming a determined and badass pirate queen, not dueling Davy Jones.
One more thing about Vader that I find really scary is that he never runs, so if you run away from him you always fear that he is gonna be waiting for you ahead of you
@GIVMI_more_W dude that happened to me a year ago and I still haven't found the little guy to this day. I just looked away for a few seconds and he disappeared as if it was a glitch in the matrix lmao.
So, like that big spider on your bedroom wall you take your eyes off of for two seconds, and it's gone? And you have no idea where it will appear next?
@AlienLife Most of them are great lmao. Fallen Order, KOTOR 1 and 2, Battlefront 2 (OG and reboot are both good imo) are the only ones I have played and they're super fun.
@GeorgeMonet “Man, I just wanna play a game where I can one hit kill everything, why can’t I just get a piss easy baby mode brain dead difficulty video game instead.” You sound like the kinda motherfucker who would say Dark Souls needs a difficulty setting or looks up a guide in a Metroid game the second you see an obstacle. A.K.A, a moron. If you wanna play a game that has no challenge whatsoever and takes one hit to kill everything, go ahead, play a game where everything is designed for toddlers, but don’t act like the Star Wars games are bad because they wanna be games with their own stories and actual difficulty instead of interactive movie adaptations where everything is the exact same as the movies.
Kylo is a better antihero than a villain I suspect. Still, I will note: a villain being dangerously unstable rather than cool and collected can definitely work as well (see Homelander), but it has to ensure that the instability is genuinely dangerous to others.
Or like i said in another comment -Joffrey from GoT: Emotionally unstable teenage boy who is very limited in his abilitys but still a heavy threat bc of the circumstances. In my oppinion because of that he is one of the most interesting antagonists.
@Teodor Urbaniak Maybe But from a certain point of view, he is the hero. Heroes are not supposed to get victory after victory. They are supposed to win in the end. He was supposed to be a villain (as a copy a pasted Darth Vader), but they obviously failed at that.
The funny part is, had Kylo Ren *won,* that could have actually made things work more. Imagine a villain that starts inept but becomes a major force towards the end. Ya know, if the hero is static, make the villain dynamic.
@Lady Bookworm and animated media in general Especially made by small creators who actually like making good stories for people Actually just small creator’s projects in general like Markiplier’s series
Kind of like a villain development arc, not to the side of good or becoming bad but instead getting better at being what they wanted to be, becoming a better villain Like shigaraki from my hero academia A childish incompetent loser to a strategic overpowered madman
Ellen Ripley in Alien is a fantastic example of a female protagonist who faces what seems like insurmountable challenges against a terrifying villain. As a result, the movie's tension in sky-high, and the audience sympathizes and cheers for her when she finally beats the alien.
@Bozo Clown I don’t know precisely what you’re referring to but there’s plenty of cases of women who are genuinely kickass in history. Boudicca, thatcher, queen Elizabeth I. Not being woke doesn’t equal pretending that woman are incapable of competence
@Anthony O'Bryan HAHA totally true! I would like to add that the Xenomorph would also most likely be re-written from a female to male. That way, Ripley can really cut loose! 😆
Kylo becoming the hero would have been great. But still we would have expected more character development from Rey, cause she felt dragged by the plot more than anything else. Yet, yes, imagining a shakepearian tale of a doomed hero that killed jedis + his father (which is also an historic fan favorite) whom redeems himself to "save the galaxy" almost give me goosebumps. Plus what a material for future possible sequels : having a hero that's actually done too many bad stuff to be forgiven, and has to live haunted by what he's done.
This is what I want for Riddler in the The Batman trilogy. He's basically a Robin character, a poor orphan who is inspired by Batman, and he already gestured toward imagining he was Batman's partner. To see Paul Dano bring his Eddie Nash to redemption and truly team up with Batman, to join the side of good and finally begin to fight the right way, would be unbelievably powerful. Sadly this will definitely not be allowed to happen.
I feel like that having a heroine get beaten by a male villian in the first half of a movie would actually help and support feminism in Hollywood. It's so much more satisfying to see a heroine grow and triumph over an evil that has beaten her before; It'd make for a better message compared to a woman getting everything handed to her because of her gender.
But that's exactly what feminists want... For every woman to get handed everything to her because she's a woman. That's literally their goal. Privilege on top of the privileges they've already had for centuries if not millennia.
And even the woman thing needs not apply: of the hero meets the villain early on, the hero should be defeated in some way: else the villain doesnt feel like a threat, but like a coward that has yo keep on the run to stay relevant.
Look at Silence of the Lambs. Clarice takes on many different men in that story and she defeats them all in different ways: She develops a relationship of respect and trust with Hannibal that allows her to get the information she needs without compromising her position in the FBI or succumbing to his darkest manipulations. She schools her FBI mentor on how to behave in front of other men with respect to the fact that she is a woman but also an FBI agent. She uses her training and wit to defeat the serial killer. And she also uses her social abilities to ward off an advance by a creepy Warden, without having to go ballistic or sue him in court. She is an awesome female character. We need more writing like that.
If The Silence of the Lambs was released today, I think the Drinker would probably call it woke. Think about it - she's shown finishing top of her class throughout her FBI training despite being the only woman there, and then pretty much every scene in the movie has her interacting with some creepy misogynist man who leers at her and flirts weirdly - the scenes with Dr Chiltern for example. The main bad guy is a sexually-confused male who specifically kills women because he's jealous of them. Even the camera angles used are all done to make the viewer feel uncomfortable in the presence of dangerous males, as we always see their faces close up as they look directly into the camera.
I watched SoTL for the first time recently, and was pleasantly surprised by how great of a lead Clarice is. I feel like I never hear her name as much when it comes to “strong female leads.” Personal favorite part is her figuring out that she was taking to Buffalo Bill, and when he retreats to his basement, instead of calling for back up she (literally) goes feet first into Hell, choosing instead to pursue him.
I LOVED Lara Craft in the rebooted game series Squarenix put out a while back. She was this 45kg woman alone on a Island full of bulked up, heavily armed pirates. So she never really went punch for punch with any of them. Your combat moves were all clever improvisations. She could shoot an arrow into an armoured up guy's leg, then brain him with a rock. That animation of the skinny protagonist snarling with desperate rage as she whole body smashed a rock into the head of a much bigger opponent made me absolutely believe that if I tried to fight Lara, I was coming away from it with a skull fracture. It also makes you root for her as a hero, because she's so hopelessly outmatched but keeps coming up a winner through sheer grit and determination. She doesn't get to stay clean and pretty. She ends up with mud caked into her hair, grime and blood all over her face, her clothes have rips and tears. She's a beast! It was just so well done. I guess audiences want to see a hero that struggles against a real obstacle.
Diverging from the villain theme, the best female character I've seen is Misato Katsuragi from Evangelion. She is deeply flawed, not a man-hating bull dyke and not immune from romantic advances, yet an incredible leader and guardian of the most useless main character in any fiction - Shinji Ikari. She was easily the best and most interesting character for me in that Anime.
If not for the trinity of Georges writing, David Prowses physical portrayal, and finally James Earl Jones voice bringing out Vaders eloquent menace. I don't think Vader would have become one of the greatest Villains in cinema.
Dooku was more powerful than Anakin and kicked his ass and chopped off his arm. Or melted it off, whatever lightsabers do...removed Anakin's arm. Only Yoda was able to save Obi and Ani from Dooku. And later, Anankin grew more skilled but still needed more power to beat Dooku, It was only the fact that Anakin became more powerful than Dooku in the last moment; but only due to character flaw; his need for revenge - which enabled Anakin to harness the dark side that made him unmatched in battle until Luke turned him back.
Agreed, but also an example of how to do villainous weakness and insecurity RIGHT. His various psychological issues make him MORE intimidating because they keep him on a hair-trigger and make it impossible to know whether attempts to reason or negotiate with him will work this time, but he's also intelligent enough that you know trying to manipulate him via those weaknesses has a very good chance of backfiring, and those weaknesses are sufficiently well-justified by his backstory that you don't feel like he's a born pathetic loser. It's proof that you can have a complex villain, including massive emotional weaknesses, and still have them be fearsome antagonists provided you get the other aspects of the writing right (and get a good enough actor to play them; Homelander could be a total failure as a character if his actor wasn't so perfect for the role).
i wish kylo was a ''secret agent'' from the begininng embracing the dark side to infiltrate and eleminate the last ''evils'' sacrficing his own father to persue his mission a mission beyond him, for the greater good. we could have see him struggle to stay in the right path even tho he has to do some cruelties to cover his secret mssion
One of the main problems from movies is that there are too many jokes in them you cant take anything seriously in it because every minute there is this stupid joke that is never funny you can have jokes in a movie but there is always so many jokes that like I said you can’t take anything seriously in a movie
"If your antagonist starts out weaker than the hero, then what the fuck is there left to strive against?" - Possibly the most succinctly perfect and true statement about the problem I've ever heard. There are so many aspects to strength, and these days villains seem to have incredible weaknesses written into them.
Also could be something else. Maybe the villain is a pitiful fighter by himself, but has terrifying legions as his command and can stay out of the hero's reach once he understands that the protagonist is stronger than he is. Then the journey of the hero becomes one not to outpower his nemesis, but to finally outsmart him. there is a reason villains like Lex Luthor and the joker work despite them being much weaker than they hero they oppose in a fight.
@Zielak2397 Zuko actually shows basic competence most of the time. He's defeated more often by cleverness and luck than by his own failings, though his failings tend to cause lots of trouble for him.
It is clear the left is more interested in weakness than strength. You need both, but strength, not only physical, needs to be emphasized in an a figure of action.
DONT YOU SEE? WOMAN DEMANDS ARE KILLING HOLLYWOOD AND THEIR PROFIT MARGINS? BAD FOR THEN CAUSE I WONT BE GIVING MY MONEY TO THEN BOTH WOMAN AND HOLLYWOOD
Hans Gruber is one of the best villains ever. Change my mind. He was smooth, confident and formidable. He was just as witty as the hero. He matched McClane's brawn and prowess with his brain. He was portrayed by an *excellent* actor who displayed a realistically malicious villain.
I love Hans Gruber, but he did make an amateurish mistake right in the beginning by including a pair of brothers on his team. You don't want people on your team with divided loyalties, and in the end, it was Karl's devotion to his brother that ended up defeating Hans.
That was absolutely the best analysis of the subject! IMO, the "new-age-villains" appear so impotent and inept - simply because if they were anything above that, then it would expose the "heroes" as an empty fake shells that they are. It's back to Hans Andersen, the dress for the King.
A hero is only as good as the villan he's up against. The first time I realized this was, James Bond's Goldfinger. I'll never forget the part where Bond is tied up on a table with a laser beam slowly moving towards his junk and he yells out "Do you expect me to talk? And Goldfinger says "No, I expect you to die Mr. Bond"
I’ve come to cynically believe shitty villains are a purposeful choice to allow for easy wins. As you put it, the better the villain, the note competent and complex our hero must be, and the bigger the payoff. But to beat Vader, you needed a vastly complex character like Luke. Competent writing can navigate the difficult task of having our hero lose with purpose and overcome such a strong character. Thing you’ve harped on ad nauseam but I truly think lately writers are confusing cheap payoffs with good ones.
easy wins only if female against them,, thanos..beat 3 powerful men....lost to 1 female who quite frankly was immediately overpowered..and thanos underpowered
@Zedekiah Takali "But I need to go to Tashi station to buy some power converters", pronounced in an intonation so whiny I almost thought something was wrong with my sound settings when I first heard it in English? The entire sinking X-Wing sequence? "I can't fight my own father", when said father's fatherhood is, to put it mildly, purely biological but not social? Whiny. Teenager. And, while "side character in his own story" would be an overstatement, he is not really allowed decisions of his own. He disobeys his mentors twice (once in Episode IV when he goes after his guardians, once when he leaves Dagobah) and the first time was inconsequential except as a warning that his mentor was right while in the second time he immediately pays with his hand. Otherwise he is led through his own story by others. For all Dumbledore's manipulations, he would just facepalm off such a direct "I'm right so shut up and do as I say": he preferred to raise his Chosen One so that his (Harry's) choices would align more naturally with his (Dumbledore's) goals.
@Dougie Buckets Is that really so bad? Yeah I agree hes not the most complex character, but in a industry filled with people constantly trying to reinvent the wheel is being simple really that bad?
@Дмитрий Зеленский Whiny, really that's the best you can come up with? When was he ever whiny? Emotional maybe but not whiny, and unlike modern main characters Luke isn't a side character in his own story like you seem to think.
@Shady Mello star wars worked because every character had a story to tell and they all flowed together in a way that made sense. Vader was fighting his fear for the emperor and his love for his son. Luke was willing to sacrifice himself to save his father, but was unwilling let leia be sacrificed. Han was fighting against his smuggler ways, but from the moment Leia came into the picture he was doing everything he can not to leave her. Leia was a badass woman and I didn't have to constantly hear for three movies that she was a woman, like I do with every other female protagonist these days. The sith were so powerful that great force users were hiding off the grid from them. There wasn't a moment where you didn't think the villains had every advantage in the book. Its what mare star wars so damn great.
The best example of an insecure and conflicted villain is Zuko from Avatar the last Airbender. He was allowed to have a long and satisfying redemption arc, and when he wasnt intimidating anymore it was fine because there were still scarier villains like Azula and the firelord.
The Final Agni Kai wasn’t about who would be Fire Lord. That Zuko would be victorious was a foregone conclusion. The real fight was between Azula and Katara, two forms of femininity, the toxic and the supportive, and to which the destined king would align himself during his rule.
@Someone Agreed, Zuko moving to save Katara is a pivotal moment for his character as it shows his new/regained lost priorities and that he was prepared to pay the ultimate price for what he felt was right. If it was Feminism, Zuko would've been slapped about instead of holding his own. Then Katara stepped in to finish the job. With some random quip about 'now we fight, woman to woman' or some shit you'd get in a marvel flick.
@Clemens Auburger the reason he lost was when azula attacked katara he sacrificed himself to save her that is all. Dont attatch meaning to the fight that wasnt there. This fenimism crap wasnt blowing up when this show released
Yeah. Zuko kind of ruined villains, because now every hack writer and short-sighted studio executive wants to have their own Zuko. Problem is, _Zuko doesn't fucking work without the goddamn Fire Lord!_
@Matthew van Duyn This is unfortunately true and hard to escape from. The invincible woman juggernaut is a clichee now of which often multiple instances can be found within the same TV series or comic. Azula, Ty Lee and Toph from Avatar are coming to my mind. There are also Zeetha and Bangladesh Dupree from Girl Genius.
As soon as I heard the, "Who talks first?"' Line I felt like I was watching one of those Judd Apatow flicks with awkward dialogue. Then when Starkiller was revealed it hit me that I was watching a fucking remake...
This is one thing I really liked in the first Avengers movie. Black Widow was competent and useful; all the way up to the end, but there were also several scenes where she was obviously totally out of her league (basically whenever she and Bruce Banner were within arm's length of each other,) and sometimes, even just plain scared. It added some much-needed humanity to her character to show that she was still capable of that.
@C Miller G Keep in mind, BW is an *enhanced* human. I'm not going to say that none of those scenes could have played out any better, but at least she was shown to be capable of fear, which is something you don't get from Galadriel when facing a similar-sized threat. If every time a female character showed competence and calmness, it made her a Mary Sue, Sarah Connor, Android 18 and Samus Aran would all be Mary Sues. Also, the question of what's believable or unbelievable is very person-relative when you're dealing in superhero fiction, or any kind of fiction in which some characters are far more experienced than others. It's not a relevant question anyway, on the topic of whether a character seems to have human limits or vulnerabilities. Also, she wasn't unarmed. She had a chair.
I disagree. Her escape from her first villain is unbelievable... The ol "unarmed woman vanqishes a group of armed men" routine. Similar to what the new, badass Galadriel of Amazon fame does. When movies do these things, they make it very difficult to suspend disbelief. Easier to do that with an Italian opera when it takes a dying hero five minute to die while belting out an aria.
In my opinion, a villain doesn't have to be able to keep calm in a situation, sometimes a villain that has random bursts of anger can inspire a fear of when they may strike next. They can still be intelligent and threatening as a villain should be, just easily provoked. I know that some media has had such a villain, but I cannot recall.
Kilgrave in Jessica Jones, man was that an amazing villain. Here you have a woman who's super strong, and you give her a villain that can't just be beaten to a pulp. An amazing pairing. Jessica as a character was also well written, as she had many flaws as a person. Ah the good old days when Hollywood was still able to tell good stories.
Yes!! Just finished Season 1 and halfway through Season 2 and Killgrave was utterly terrifying. That show and the characters are written so well, I wish She-Hulk writers would take serious notes
Considering how ridiculously powerful Rey is, the Disney trilogy should've made *her* the villain. It could've been a Negative Change Arc, as we'd see her fall to the Dark Side and Kylo Ren would evolve into the hero the story needed. *That* would've been *way* more interesting that what we actually got.
I predicted this was the plan, and hoped for it. There are elements in the Rise of Skywalker which suggest it was considered. The last jedi really messed it all up. Palatine return was great in ep 9 but he should have appeared in 8 and began to taunt Rey. Have her fully turn to the dark with him would have been epic and completely against type. Sometimes the villains have to win. You then have your chance to write 10-12 and bring her down with a new hero.
Yeah, I mean, she's Palpatine's granddaughter. Her power comes too easily (compare her to Yoda's description of the Dark Side in ESB) Its all right freakin' there.
@I am a cat person Every women in the the second film of the sequel trilogy is evil. That is just how reality is. Then again, maybe some of the porgs are female. General Holdo, captain pink hair, is either evil, beyond incompetent, or both.
@*Insert funny name here* he tried, but he didn’t pull it off. No one could, the character was such a laughable villain, I would even say Jar Jar Binks bad.
@Phil Wilson yeah. That’s my point. He was given a terrible character but tried his best to make it work. Which he did to an extent. Did you even read my comment?
A good contrast for me would be General Hux vs Grand Moff Tarkin. Let's leave aside how great an actor Peter Cushing was - Tarkin was a guy you took seriously. He was always in control, and was willing to commit atrocities in the name of the empire, but always did so in a calm, professional manner. That cold professionalism added to his air of menace, and even Vader would take orders from him. Now look at Hux. Constantly bickering with Kylo Ren, betrays the First Order just to get back at him, and is generally impossible to take seriously. When he's addressing the stormtroopers on Starkiller base, he's screaming and chewing the scenery so much, I thought his eyes were going to pop out. And when Poe starts popping 'yo mama' jokes at him, I knew we were in trouble with Last Jedi 🙄
People forget that only 3 people ever dared to talk down to Vader: Palpatine, Tarkin and Leia... but she wasn't a strong woman according to certain people...
8:25-8:37 This description could also be attributed to Scar from The Lion King. He has a childish view of what it means to be king and is quick to lash out when his ability as a king is questioned. However, what makes him a good villain in spite of, or maybe even because of that, is that he poses a legitimate threat to the hero, Simba. He is able to manipulate Simba to think he's guilty for killing his father and, before that, is able to manipulate Simba to going into the elephant graveyard, in order to get him into a trap to kill him. Not to mention, he's able to come up with a plan to get Mufasa into a situation where he can kill him quite easily. Not to mention that, for as childish and pathetic as he becomes once he becomes king, he's still incredibly dangerous, as these qualities mean he's willing to let everyone suffer and die under his rule.
When I first saw come out of that ship and freeze that blaster bolt I thought he was so cool and I thought hux was a space nazis with his fervour and rage then they got made into a laughing stock
@A You Tube Commenter Like I said, I don't know how. Maybe Loki finds a way to outwit her and beat her in some weird Asgard loophole and tells Thor about it. Like I said, it's just not going to be enjoyable or cathartic to watch Thor beat Hela to death. You can make the female villain physically dominant in the start of the movie, but it's never going to be satisfying to watch a beefcake like Chris Hemsworth beat the shit out of Cate Blanchette, regardless of her power level.
In the case of Thor: Ragnarok, I don't know how you end that movie. Because I don't want to watch Thor crush a woman's skull with a hammer. But having Surtur just beat her because no one wants to see Chris Hemsworth beat Cate Blanchett within an inch of her life, even if she did that to him at an earlier point in the movie, is not a good alternative.
I rewatched this after having just sat through "Birds of Prey." All I can say is, the roles are officially reversed. The "heroes" are narcissistic, over powered, villains, themselves whose greatest act of heroism is never facing the consequences of their actions.
I'll throw out a few more for ya (though abbreviated with the specific example): Mulan (the 98 animated one) Sarah Connor (first two Terminators) Ripley (First two Aliens)
Fighting a Mary Sue is probably the biggest challenge our antagonists face, but all his problems would’ve been fixed if he was made into the protagonist like he should’ve been and Rey the bad guy that he overcomes
Thanos looked the most powerful person in the MCU in the eyes after being stabbed in the chest by a giant axe and said "You should've gone for the head"
The coolest thing about Vader in the first film was he was even an outcast by the Imperials who either looked down upon his supernatural beliefs or were just plain too scared of him to associate, leaving him truly isolated and working directly for the antagonistic cause with no other motivations. A true black knight character more than the typical evil general archetype.
If we are talking about the first Star Wars, then why not mention the other great villain, the one man who gets away with telling Vader off: Tarkin. And let us not forget that he was the one who ordered the destruction of Alderaan in the first place
@E- tan Vader prefer order and respecting Tarkin's command is order. He do hower show little patience for incompetence such as Admiral Ozzel not sticking to the plan and attacking the rebel base on Hoth on his own. Ozzel was an incompetent glory hound and paid the ultimate price for it.
@Michael Pettersson because they were in Tarkin's territory. While there, the last word on any decision is made by Tarkin, unless the Emperor himself steps in. Even Vader is outrankedthere, but should they step into a place outside Tarkin's territory, Vader outranks him.
The boys is a rare example of a show produced by a large mainstream production company that somehow manages to introduce kickass female, bisexual, black, straight, ugly, beautiful and weird characters in a way where they are all interesting and everyone has their own struggle to fight
They straight up had the female beat a guy who can use a move that gets rid of your powers and have her fall off a building then survive .Also had Homelander struggling to beat her.Garbage show produced by far leftist Seth Rogen that will get worse. The show isn’t your friend.
Now that we are coming to an age of merged orwellian and huxleyian nightmare, constantly attacked from one side by plain dictatorial external threats, and from the other side by corporate greedy control freaks diguising themselves as liberals, Now we are fucked. For good. Would it not be for nuclear apocalypse and - more realistically - climate and biospheral collapse, I'd say let the blatantly evil guys win, we will always have time to defeat them later from the inside. But now with the global potentially apocalyptical issues I laid out just earlier, well... I can't figure out a good and nice ending. We are fucked, the only sad part is that trees and animals are too. That we fuck ourselves up is one thing. But we destroyed innocent lives with us, and this is the real sad part. I know it seems irrelevant to this movie critic, but it is not. I have no energy left in me to explain how, but it does.
It also showcases the issues inherent to corporate and governmental powers merging, and the dangers of blind hero worship to a society. Great show. Can't watch it, too depressing. Reminds me of the first three times I tried to read Brave New World, I kept getting super upset that the book warning us not to become what we are was pointing out exactly what we're doing wrong. "We were keeping our eye on 1984. When the year came and the prophecy didn't, thoughtful Americans sang softly in praise of themselves. The roots of liberal democracy had held. Wherever else the terror had happened, we, at least, had not been visited by Orwellian nightmares. "But we had forgotten that alongside Orwell's dark vision, there was another - slightly older, slightly less well known, equally chilling: Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. Contrary to common belief even among the educated, Huxley and Orwell did not prophesy the same thing. Orwell warns that we will be overcome by an externally imposed oppression. But in Huxley's vision, no Big Brother is required to deprive people of their autonomy, maturity and history. As he saw it, people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think. "What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. "This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right." From "Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business" by Neil Postman.
I think Kylo would've been better if he grew become increasing threat, become more competent and less childish over time, creating an actual challenge between him and Rey. But they wouldn't do that, either lack of skills or deliberately making Rey look superficially better.
gotta say maxwell lord wasnt a good example for this. the rest followed but why would he need to be intimidating? you should have been talking about cheeta not him.
@Truck guy He’s another film critic channel and the Drinker frequently does streams with him. His first video I watched was him Captain Marvel one, and for the entire he video he calls her “Plank” which is why I thought you watched his video.
I'm using your videos as writing advice. Your way of explaining things has really helped me understand what traps to avoid, and how to provide a certain suspense that would validate the motivations of my heroes and villains. You might be a reviewer, but your complaints have a depth than modern journalism can't match. In short, thank you.
I actually never thought about how in Thor ragnarok, they never did show Thor beating hela, which was what should have logically happened based on the flow of narratives.
@TWO_point_0 Why are u running defense for marvel's sh *tty writing? I swear, some people can do all kinds of mental acrobatics to make the world be how the want it. I actually envy that.
One of drinker's criticisms was that men were not able to beat women also in wits or intelligence. Thor may have not beat Hela in a physical fight but he absolutely outwitted her, so he ultimately won, although not in your typical 'I save the world and everything is rosy at the end' way. But there is nonetheless still hope left for Thor and team. I fail to see how that ending is still classed alonside the other feminist tropes.
I think it was much more of a story for Thor to overcome Mjolnir being destroyed and he was also fighting the Goddess of Death, who was an intimidating villain. Also she is also technically immortal so the destruction of Asgard would’ve been the only way to defeat her. I don’t think they gave Hela feminism armor on this one. Could be wrong tho
I agree, earlier in the movie they showcase how skilled thor is at close quarters combat when he was beating the hulk in the gladiator arena, but then they just brush it aside later in the movie.
I feel like the writers were conflicted on how to portray Kylo. It seems like they wanted him to be a secondary protagonist with his bursts of rage and immaturity seen as a character flaw he has to figure out how to overcome, and ironically, losing to the heroes every time he faces one set it up for more character development than what they did for Rey.
I didn't see Captain Marvel, so I don't know her character buffs at all. I did see practically every other movie in the 20-ish Avengers-verse, though. Thanos possessing literally universe-altering power, Thor being an actual god, and then some humans good with a bow and a nerd in a fancy suit... The power leveling is all over the place and I couldn't take any of it seriously, then comes random, never-before-mentioned Space Lady, and suddenly Thanos is a one-hitter-quitter. Nope. Can't do it. Spent probably 50 hours of my life with you explaining these characters arc, motivations, strengths and weaknesses, and then just "thwack" and it's all over. Everyone else might as well have just stayed home that day and let C.M. woosh in and save them.
The Gary Oldman villainous corrupt detective character in the professional person does what a perfectly fleshed out villain should be❤ and now he is once again being that complex villain again in Slow Horses❤😊
“Easily brushed aside when the script decides it’s time for them to lose” is the best articulated point about how disingenuous modern film villains have become. Villains are formidable, there is a reason why Darth Vader walks slow and it’s because he moves for no one.
Eowyn from "The Lord of the Rings" is a female character who scores the greatest single-combat victory by any human in the entire saga. Not one of the male heroes scores a one-on-one win on par with defeating Sauron's right hand man, the immortal Witch King (admittedly, she had help from Merry, but while his heroism made victory possible, Eowyn still had to actually go out and win- she had to kill a freaking dragon before she could even take a shot at the SOB). And she does this all while protecting the body of King Theoden. Protecting the body of a your fallen king from capture and mutilation was the most noble thing an Anglo-Saxon warrior could do, so she is excelling in a variety of traditionally male roles all without magically making the men incompetent, sacrificing her femininity, or coming across as a "Strong Female Character". And she was written by a deeply conservative Catholic man with zero interest in any feminist agenda. Oh, the delicious irony.
@USBearForce I really like your points and the way you word things 👍 My analysis, is that Eowyn fights for those she loves and cares for and not be left as a bystanding watching her world crumble (which we can all relate to). For me, it's a very relatable, human experience on a lesser scale for our own lives and the conflict we feel when placed in difficult, scary situations that question whether we have the right courage and clear motivation and reasoning to go into said situation. As some who hates SJW, this is not it. It would be such a weak attempt for someone to try and denigrate her character to that of an sjw when Eowyn is seeing those she loves slaughtered and her world crumbling. We have been shown numerous times her frustration to be a passive bystander in the cells with the women, waiting for certain painful death, unarmed, should the men fail, is a completely understandable reaction. She's not trying to outsmart or degrade her male counterparts, heck, her motivation comes from wanting to help and contribute for them in their endeavours in a more active way.
One of the things I love about lord of the rings is almost all of the characters are at least worried they could die. Now lots of characters don't give a shit even with millions of bullets flying past them, even the ones with no bulletproof powers don't care there is a bunch of bullets getting fired at them lol.
@Blake Johnson True. But that's become a meme rather than a possibility. Eowyn was written by a man that respected the story arc and sure, maybe it was a nod to girls reading the stories but that's fine. She wasn't put in there for the sake of her being there. She had a reason and the result was awesome.
@Shendue We are talking about the modern era with Tolkien, but it’s never been as bad as outsiders make out and a lot of it is just Protestant spin. No stretch about it, I suggest maybe you spend time with them directly. It has everything to do with Mary and Eve both and other female figures. Time to get with the times, and even in Tolkien's day women were respected far more than people want to think. Women are not allowed to be Pope or priests as men are reserved to be the source of spiritual life; women OTOH are acknowledged equally in the role of sole physical life givers (quite important you would agree), that however is not putting them in a second class status but an equal one. It’s acknowledged because Christ didn’t employ women as such BUT absolutely he hung with them as equals and took their opinions and respect very seriously (whether or not some followers did). Supporting monogamy and emphasizing marriage is also a direct pointer to inherent respect for women in Catholicism starting day one. We do not believe in women as “lesser created creatures” as some do. Polygamists most definitely class women on a lower level. To suggest this is some effect of radicalization speaks of sheer ignorance of what the actual religions believe. Nowhere in Christianity does it explicitly advocate beating your wife for instance. I honestly think you really don’t know that much internally about the belief systems actually work.
If there's something I've learned as I continue to age and grow in this time period, it's that everyone who once strived for equality decided that it either wasn't given to them quickly enough, or that it simply wasn't enough. Almost no one wants true neutrality and true equality, these days. Everyone wants to be special and everyone wants to be treated differently. But rather than earn it, they feel _entitled_ to it because of their ancestry or the way things went in a relatively distant past. And unfortunately, big companies like to bend over backward to these kinds of people because they are - or were - the "unspoken minority". Give people an inch and they'll take a mile. 🤷♀
"what happened to our villains?" They entered the real Life, became woke and destroy one Franchise after another. Not to Mention Society and pretty much every Aspect of it.
A good edit to Kylo would be he would keep his entire mask on for Episode 7 and when Rey slashed his face we could see his eyes, making more mystery around the Kylo Ren, and explaining why Kylo didn’t freaking die when Rey slashed his face open.
this is why I end up rooting more for villains nowadays, a lot of them became the underdog. The roles are reversed and so is the effects of the characters.
I would love to hear your thoughts about Commodus who has many of the same human characteristics as Kylo Ren. But, is much more frightening maybe because he actually wields and uses true power.
One of the best villains, partly because Joaquin Phoenix did an outstanding job, but also because he understands how to manipulate others with the power and wealth he controls. He's not afraid to sell Rome's future for his own gain. Despite his ruthlessness and occasional emotional outbursts, the audience sees he can be competent in holding on to power which creates a real problem for the protagonists to overcome. Kylo on the other hand just seems incompetent as a person and leader, so poses no real threat. His only saving grace might be proficiency with a light saber, but he wasn't even given that.
We need more people in the world like this man, logical yet polite and isn’t lost in the “woke” or appeasing culture society today tends to glorify to its own detriment. Well done man
There is actually enough people like this, just look at this whole comment thread. The problem is that the creators choose to listen to the loud "woke" minority instead.
I really thought Kylo was going to be the protagonist, imagine how much more interesting the point of view of an uncertain and unstable Sith as he commits atrocities to further confuse himself and his connection to the Dark Side and then attempt to find redemption. Instead of Disney trying to retcon Rey as the "savior of the galaxy". Or Rey end up becoming a power hungry villain that Kylo has to stop, that would really justify how inherently strong she is at least a little.
I remember reading that a great villain is made by making them the hero of their story. The villains from the past fit that perfectly. Most actors wanted those roles because they had more meat to them. But this newest crop is embarrassing. Loved that you compared Darth to Kylo. Those first few minutes of The Force Awakens were amazing. Kylo came in strong and I remember the Storm Troopers executing the innocent with no missed shots. Finally! Here was an Empire (okay, the First Order) to be feared! And then... not so much. With Snoke I thought, okay that's the purpose of Kylo, to show him not at Darth's level but trying to get there with all his faults. That could have been interesting. But as you showed, "we have Snoke at least... Oops, no we don't.) Lol. So our big bad is Kylo? I never feared him. He was a joke. Just a matter of time to take him down. And going on for 3 movies was too long.
I was on an elevator at a sci-fi convention. We're all on our way down to the late night parties, when the elevator stops, the doors glide open, and frickin Darth Vader steps on, turns to face the doors, and never speaks a word. The whole elevator went silent. It was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. Everybody *knew* that it was just a nerd in a costume, but it didn't matter. His presence was simply that *imposing*.
I think the issue falls with so many writer's trying to help you reason with and understand the villain. with negan from the walking dead, after everything he did, they want you to sympathize with him and feel bad. Like no mf i wanted a badass villain for the sake of them being a badass, i dont wanna feel sorry for someone i should fear
I like the point you make about where is the threat of a villain when you allow others to throw snarky comments at them unchallenged. Almost as if it’s a joke. Well that’s it. We live in a modern society where everything is turned into a joke/meme. They want to inject humor into scenes not to enhance the lore but rather in spite of it. The fact that Kylo Ren takes his mask off it was probably due to the fact that he was an up-and-coming actor and wanted recognition more than he cared about how in doing so it was also destroying the mystique of the character.
a story is only as good as its villain and now I can understand that quote, I see a fair amout of my issues with these movies come from there shiity villains
If I had daughters I would rather that they looked up to Ripley or Sarah Connor. Not some Mary Sue like Rey or Carol Danvers....or Harley Quinn. DEFINITELY not Harley Quinn.
Lady D'Winter, Ellen Ripley, Valeria, Sarah Conner, the Bride-AKA Kiddo, Carol Peletier, these are the most original, real badass women (not mutants, not cyborgs, no supernatural powers) seen in movies and TV
Word of advice, don't scull a 750ml (about a pint) of Bundaburg rum at your 18th birthday. Being marched up and down the front yard to stay alive is not fun.. 😂🤣😂🤣
Really wish you'd review Alita: Battle Angel. It is a modern film that really does what you're talking about here. It actually has it's female lead get defeated before her growth. She has to build herself up from rock bottom, makes mistakes, and ascends them.
Personally, I thought Kylo Ren ended up becoming a great character, probably by accident. No, he wasn't that effective as a villain, but as a character, he had a fully developed and interesting story arc. He was obviously conflicted, and thought that by committing all sorts of evil, he'd find purpose and meaning for his life, only to realize that he'd never find it through the path he was on and that all he ever would be was a pawn for greater evil. At times you could hate him, other times you'd laugh at him, and sometimes he was almost sympathetic. Unlike Rey, he constantly struggled, failed, and got back up. His heel-face turn felt earned, and in the end, he felt like a fully fleshed out character.
@Yours Truly too woke for me at least the more spoiler answer: Loki is sidelined by a female character, talks about his feelings, makes an unnecessary comment about his sexuality and there’s a contrived romantic subplot. Not to mention the series’ main goal of convincing him he should be a ‘better person’. not my cuppa
The thing that makes Darth Vader so intimidating is that he was a jedi first. That’s where his composure comes from. I actually do think Kylo Ren actually could have been a scary villain with his weakness. All they needed to do is make him make more evil choices on his emotional fits. There really is nothing scarier than a full grown powerful men who act like whiny children all the time. They actually went this direction with Anakin occasionally in the prequels. Many didn’t like that because he’s supposed to grow up to be this composed monster. I think they really could have leaned into it with Kylo. Imagine Eustis Scrub from Narnia but actually dangerous. It would just make him really hard to respect when he turns back to the light side. Wouldn’t want writers to have to work that hard now would we?
Here is the thing: You can make an imposing, scary villian multiple ways. A cold, calculated, ruthless person can be scary. An impulsive, vengeful, unpredictable person can be scary. A driven but missguided person can be scary. A deranged megalomaniac can be scary. What will NOT work as a trait for a villian whatsoever is incompetence. Villians by definition are people who WANT to do something that has negative moral consequences (Not nessecarly BECAUSE of those consequences, but in spite of them, like thanos for example.). Competence is the ability to make the changes you want to see happen actually happen. So by definition, a villian that is incompetent is not very threatening, because they lack the ability to actually make the 'evil' thing they wanna see happen happen. Which is why modern movies, which shy away from showing the villian outperform the hero - a sign of competence - cant create villians that feel scary (especially with that stupid male-female BS playing a part.)
In Ragnarok, I think the whole point is that Hela was basically too strong even for Thor, and that part of his character development was knowing when it would be worth to admit defeat, run away, and live to see another day. I also liked him realising that he would not be able to defeat her with strength or raw power.
Haven't seen it, but in the comics, Hel (Hela) essentially can't be defeated because she is the goddess of death. But Thor gets around her again and again by outwitting her. He never takes her on in battle because the only possible result is his death. He could "kill" her again and again, but as death itself, she is essentially indestructible. Kill her and she just rises again.
Have you seen Tenet? Good film if you want to feel intimidated by a villain. That dude had all the power in the world and was blind-sided to who he thought he had control over the most. Very satisfying to watch his downfall.
having only watched the first of the last SW trilogy, i wasnt that much dismissive of Kylo Ren: i felt his shortcomings and hesitations made him a more layered character and i would have been interested in having some sort of character development instead of just being a road block, it left me a bit more of uncertainty of what to expect from him. A villain that develops could make for something nice especially with enough screen time, and the whole antagonist Military group could have been enough to be a threat by itself to let Kylo take a bit more time to reach his peak, like a rival that wants to train harder and better than you. but the problem was he was made a non-issue by Rey Sue which surpass him without a modicum of effort. And sadly, i heard that development wasnt much happening in the later movies. If the balance would have been better, i think he could have been a more memorable antagonist.
I've always felt that it's because "heroes" are now the self-insert of the writer. One who often has an agenda. The villain then becomes the embodiment of what the writer hates. So, instead of Darth Vader we get whiny, screamy, tantrum-throwing pseudo nazis. Instead of Zuul, we get a sort of hateful and socially awkward incel. We get white men mansplaining their evil plans to the heroic women who have been given only x0.77 of the respect he has been given all their lives. All of which makes for really boring villains.
"I'm a big baby man/woman who wants to insert myself into the role of a hero with no comprehension of self-sacrifice, discipline, or self-improvement. So if I'm the hero then that means the villain is whatever personally upsets me...not like an abstraction or anything that represents something truly evil. A literal portrayal of someone with whom I would disagree on the Internet who isn't actually a direct antagonist to me beyond said disagreeing with me. Welp. Time to start stuffing this scarescrow...soon as I put change my adult diapers for the fifth time today."
@BWMagus wasnt trump friends with epistein/ he had a whole ass picture with him and all (before you think i am left biden is basically opena nd loud about the shit he say i am not right or left i am in the middle bc to me both sides suck ass)
The Empire in the original trilogy were originally based on Nazis. All of the original Star Wars is a conglomerate of WWII, the wild west, Christianity, Buddhism, and ancient Japan. Only in the Disney trilogy did they have to overexaggerate the space Nazis by having that ridiculous AH type speech in front of thousands of soldiers and banners/flags everywhere, as if the audience doesn't already know what they are based on
@rodtheworm Obama brought us nearly to the brink of war with Russia (Which would have been pretty much guaranteed to escalate to WWIII) by pissing its leaders off with his trademark blend of arrogance, self- righteousness and stupidity. In contrast, about a month or so after Trump was elected, Putin openly said he would seek peace with America at all costs (perhaps because he knew America would soon be getting a new president who was someone that shouldn't be f$$ked with?). Trump pulled us back from the brink of war before even starting his term!
Imagine if Po had previously seen someone trying to backchat to Kylo instead, and Kylo just cut that guy off mid-sentence, force-choked him, crushed his wind pipe and threw his lifeless body aside. Then when he moves on to interrogate Po, the scene and the villain would feel a lot more intense.
Mostly agreeing with the guy and his report of the situation until he decide that the ONLY reason the problem exist is feminism. The problem is media monopolies don't want to try new ideas or things that have even a remote chance of failing. They want to find the common denominator movie, the one they can repeat ad nauseum while still getting a box office on it, which result in very bland tropey movies. The woman can't lose against man trope is just so common because of that. This is the real reason we don't get good villain anymore, because wish fulfillment is part of the common denominator thingy, and it can't happen if the hero struggle, which consequentially affect the antagonists as much as the plot. The hero can't fail or struggle, so he win every fight, doesn't need to train, always get exactly what he intended to get, etc...
Great essay! Although I'm pretty sure I disagree with Drinker politically, I agree here. I would like to acknowledge there are still artists making good-great films, you'll just be hard pressed to find it amongst major studios. Particularly those that virtue signal "the message" for prophet.
Darth Vader : "Sister, so you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her too. Obi-wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete. If you will not turn to the Dark side then perhaps she will." Luke : *let's his rage take over* - This is why Vader is the most legendary bad@ss villain in cinematic history, even in defeat he wins.
If you think about it through out the entire original triology, Vader never unintentionally lost. His defeat to Luke was intentional since he knew Luke's true potential is more powerful than him, but only if he's evil which is exactly what Vader wanted. And then he finally got his revenge on the man who absolutely ruined his life, Palpatine.
Lucas literally wrote in Leia as Luke's sister specifically for this scene. He certainly did a good job to bring out that super emotional moment that really gives your body the shivers as soon as Luke's light saber is drawn. But Vader pretty much loses his badass appearance in Return of the Jedi and is mostly off to the side as the Emperor steps in as the real villain. I think it's mainly because of the change in directors, as the story itself doesn't really make him all that weak.
@efnissien there’s a difference tho between the exception to the rule and and no rule. One person being able to talk to Vader as an equal shows that persons power, if everyone talked like an equal to Vader it would show Vader’s lack of power.
DONT YOU SEE? WOMAN DEMANDS ARE KILLING HOLLYWOOD AND THEIR PROFIT MARGINS? BAD FOR THEN CAUSE I WONT BE GIVING MY MONEY TO THEN BOTH WOMAN AND HOLLYWOOD
That's why we all watch anime now. The villains are often impossible to beat and it usually takes the main character about 4 years to come around to best them in a fight, only to find out that they were just a henchman. The hero often comes close to death on their first encounter with the villain, this defeat can be dragged on for weeks and months, and once they start giving the villains back story, you start to feel conflicted, because they often have good reason to be how they are, ridiculously cool, intelligent and calculating to a level way beyond our naive protagonist's ability. I would say it's "the message" that is ruining things, but it's more likely that people (young writers) think that it's easy to come up with creative, captivating storylines. What has become easy is creating cool shots and making things go boom, but that's not enough to capture an audience, it makes money because usually there's nothing else to watch.
Oh, there's plenty of other stuff to watch, and studios are making less and less money bc of that. There are just enough brain-dead npcs that support garbage and perpetuate the cycle. But you can only make so many dumpster fires before people catch on. I believe once the ai and tech reach the level where anyone can produce a film for cheap, perhaps in the next 10 years. there will be a film renaissance and hollywood will be seen as this obsolete institution. Think about how much cultural cache hollywood has lost in the last 20 years. These days, there are more stars born from independent creators on social media than hollywood. Synthesis engines are the future.
I just found this channel a few days ago and weirdly, you've been spot on about everything so far. I teach introductory film at a college and I just WISH I could show your vids to my college students.. but then someone would whine to my boss and my union would have to hire a lawyer... I guess what I'm saying is that although people *say* that college professors have autonomy and academic freedom, we don't. So there's that...
So true! I remember how I felt reading the red wedding and the absolute dismay I felt as my favourite characters were eviscerated.... almost threw my kindle at the wall! what it really did was make me fear for the rest of the characters as they were now genuinely vulnerable in a way I'd never felt reading fantasy before, and every obstacle overcome from then on felt like a genuine achievement (and relief)
The thing is that kylo being an immature, ineffective child was a really good starting point for the character. They just chose to never address it and grow from there. They decided to straight up just ignore it.
What's said is that My Hero Academia has the same premise, but does it a trillion times better than the Star War sequel trilogy. There's a noob hero and villain, both start off comically incompetent, but they slowly and surely become genuine badasses who grow as they have a back-and-forth struggle against one another. Tomura, the noob villain of this example, has the exact same character as Kylo Ren (an arrogant, whiny manchild with violent tantrums) but develops into a calculating, collected, careful monster who is competent enough to out-villain previous major villains before him. That is what Kylo Ren SHOULD have been...but isn't. And never will be. And can't be.
Totally agree.. at first I thought his character would grow very strongly in the continuing films, but they never really did much with him … progressing toward good or evil. They did almost nothing
I have always said that Kylo Ren should have been Luke’s son. It would make a lot more sense name wise as why would Han and Leia name their son Ben after a man they barely knew? Instead of Luke trying to murder him in his sleep maybe Ben is feeling pushed aside because Luke is so busy rebuilding the Jedi order. Maybe this is when Snoke starts influencing him having him the attention he craves. This eventually results in Luke and Ben coming to blows and in the fight Luke’s wife gets killed by accident. Ben blames Luke and Luke blames himself and goes into exile during which the knights of Ren destroy the Jedi order.
@Death Waffle Yep - Phasma had awesome potential. Not only have we never really seen Storm Troopers as anything other than nameless/faceless henchmen - we've never seen a high ranking one or female Storm Trooper either. Her chrome armour looked cool too. They wasted this potential, sidelining her in the first movie and then killed her off unceremoniously in the second. Finn had great potential as an ex-storm trooper and that aspect could have been explored in much more depth - but he became nothing more than a side show to Rey. Kylo and Rey could have been interesting if they switched things up a bit. A really bold move would have been to let Rey fall fully to the dark side and let Kylo redeem his fall by coming back to the light to defeat her........but that wouldn't fit with the "sugar and spice and all things nice" narrative.
I think it'S always easy to look back and say "See, things used to be better in movies." However, the past has the advantage of you only remembering the highlights. If you pick the best movie per year, you'll have 10 movies from a decade, and when you compare them to 10 random movies of the thousands made annually, of course they're gonna be better in comparison. Reality is, there's different types of villains, and modern day also has competent and threatening villains, whether it be from The Boys, or from Arcane. Hell, even Into the multiverse of madness has a technically op villain.
Ойын-сауық
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You hit the mark on the film industries struggles. But I would say even in movies like Megamind the villain could be whiney and still be good and ruthless, its lack of competency or seriousness overall.
Did you review alien?
In short kylo Ren is a millennial.
No.
@Luke Stock Do you mean Megatron in the comics or movies?
The Villains are still around. They just write, produce and direct now.
But villians are supposed to be cool.
We need a movie where the Writers, Directors, Producers and other members who support them to be portrayed as Villains and the guy wins against them and makes them feel like they were the Baddies all along...
This comment was just as good as the video itself.
Lmao
Best comment
I think Davy Jones is also a great example of a visually intimidating villain.
@highv priest nah bro, hating on Elizabeth is just hating on badass female characters. She's both feminine and strong, a perfect balance
@highv priest Another thing that elevates Pirates is the music. So good.
@highv priest I hate to start a battle over this, but the next movie was called "On Stranger Tides" and Henry wasn't involved with the story again until "Dead Men Tell No Tales." But I'm glad we agree that Elizabeth's story had little to do with Davy.
@Terrible T Yeah they had a token moment for a split second where Davy had to explain why he's allowed to hit a woman for 10 of the 20 seconds they fought, "You'll not see any mercy from me!".
However I'll also mention that... Elizabeth did not become the pirate queen in At World's End. She stayed on land waiting for will Turner when he could next come to shore to meet their son Henry who was in the next movie Fountain of Youth.
@highv priest Actually, they clashed for about 15 seconds, but it didn’t even matter. Elizabeth’s story involved her becoming a determined and badass pirate queen, not dueling Davy Jones.
One more thing about Vader that I find really scary is that he never runs, so if you run away from him you always fear that he is gonna be waiting for you ahead of you
@cjcrrazy they run off camera. It's canon.
@GIVMI_more_W dude that happened to me a year ago and I still haven't found the little guy to this day. I just looked away for a few seconds and he disappeared as if it was a glitch in the matrix lmao.
So, like that big spider on your bedroom wall you take your eyes off of for two seconds, and it's gone? And you have no idea where it will appear next?
@AlienLife Most of them are great lmao. Fallen Order, KOTOR 1 and 2, Battlefront 2 (OG and reboot are both good imo) are the only ones I have played and they're super fun.
@GeorgeMonet “Man, I just wanna play a game where I can one hit kill everything, why can’t I just get a piss easy baby mode brain dead difficulty video game instead.” You sound like the kinda motherfucker who would say Dark Souls needs a difficulty setting or looks up a guide in a Metroid game the second you see an obstacle. A.K.A, a moron. If you wanna play a game that has no challenge whatsoever and takes one hit to kill everything, go ahead, play a game where everything is designed for toddlers, but don’t act like the Star Wars games are bad because they wanna be games with their own stories and actual difficulty instead of interactive movie adaptations where everything is the exact same as the movies.
Kylo is a better antihero than a villain I suspect.
Still, I will note: a villain being dangerously unstable rather than cool and collected can definitely work as well (see Homelander), but it has to ensure that the instability is genuinely dangerous to others.
Or like i said in another comment -Joffrey from GoT: Emotionally unstable teenage boy who is very limited in his abilitys but still a heavy threat bc of the circumstances. In my oppinion because of that he is one of the most interesting antagonists.
I think Tuco Salamanca is another great example of an unstable and erratic villain done well
@Jack Xiao ...And Leia. Both were attractive...what happened?
@Thunk Junk Sorry to the actor, but he looks like he's more a character on Napoleon Dynamite than the son of Hans Solo.
@Teodor Urbaniak Maybe
But from a certain point of view, he is the hero.
Heroes are not supposed to get victory after victory. They are supposed to win in the end. He was supposed to be a villain (as a copy a pasted Darth Vader), but they obviously failed at that.
1980s villain; (Vader kills someone's and then says) Apology accepted
2020's villain; if you dont do what I say Imma tell my mommy
1970s*
The funny part is, had Kylo Ren *won,* that could have actually made things work more. Imagine a villain that starts inept but becomes a major force towards the end. Ya know, if the hero is static, make the villain dynamic.
that was exactly what i was thinking
That's really good idea
@Lady Bookworm and animated media in general
Especially made by small creators who actually like making good stories for people
Actually just small creator’s projects in general like Markiplier’s series
Kind of like a villain development arc, not to the side of good or becoming bad but instead getting better at being what they wanted to be, becoming a better villain
Like shigaraki from my hero academia
A childish incompetent loser to a strategic overpowered madman
@Alec Shockowitz Like Hunter X Hunter with Gon (hero turning bad) and Meruem (villain turning good).
Ellen Ripley in Alien is a fantastic example of a female protagonist who faces what seems like insurmountable challenges against a terrifying villain. As a result, the movie's tension in sky-high, and the audience sympathizes and cheers for her when she finally beats the alien.
@Bezza49 Yeah... Let's hope it won't come to that!
Written now, Ripley would be a gender neutral non binary person who just defeats the xenomorph with pronouns
Was just looking for Ripley in the comments. She is the only gem I missed from the video. Not disappointed - thank you!:)
@Bozo Clown I don’t know precisely what you’re referring to but there’s plenty of cases of women who are genuinely kickass in history. Boudicca, thatcher, queen Elizabeth I. Not being woke doesn’t equal pretending that woman are incapable of competence
@Anthony O'Bryan HAHA totally true!
I would like to add that the Xenomorph would also most likely be re-written from a female to male. That way, Ripley can really cut loose! 😆
Kylo becoming the hero would have been great. But still we would have expected more character development from Rey, cause she felt dragged by the plot more than anything else.
Yet, yes, imagining a shakepearian tale of a doomed hero that killed jedis + his father (which is also an historic fan favorite) whom redeems himself to "save the galaxy" almost give me goosebumps. Plus what a material for future possible sequels : having a hero that's actually done too many bad stuff to be forgiven, and has to live haunted by what he's done.
This is what I want for Riddler in the The Batman trilogy. He's basically a Robin character, a poor orphan who is inspired by Batman, and he already gestured toward imagining he was Batman's partner. To see Paul Dano bring his Eddie Nash to redemption and truly team up with Batman, to join the side of good and finally begin to fight the right way, would be unbelievably powerful. Sadly this will definitely not be allowed to happen.
I feel like that having a heroine get beaten by a male villian in the first half of a movie would actually help and support feminism in Hollywood. It's so much more satisfying to see a heroine grow and triumph over an evil that has beaten her before; It'd make for a better message compared to a woman getting everything handed to her because of her gender.
But that's exactly what feminists want... For every woman to get handed everything to her because she's a woman. That's literally their goal. Privilege on top of the privileges they've already had for centuries if not millennia.
We definitely don’t want to support feminism in Hollywood - for ANY reason.
And even the woman thing needs not apply: of the hero meets the villain early on, the hero should be defeated in some way: else the villain doesnt feel like a threat, but like a coward that has yo keep on the run to stay relevant.
Exactly. Those kinds of movies with mary-sues is the thematic equivalent of saying to a depressed person "stop being depressed bro."
Ohhh... yeah? Can't wait to get my animation out! Takes a lot of work but working on it. 😁
Look at Silence of the Lambs. Clarice takes on many different men in that story and she defeats them all in different ways: She develops a relationship of respect and trust with Hannibal that allows her to get the information she needs without compromising her position in the FBI or succumbing to his darkest manipulations. She schools her FBI mentor on how to behave in front of other men with respect to the fact that she is a woman but also an FBI agent. She uses her training and wit to defeat the serial killer. And she also uses her social abilities to ward off an advance by a creepy Warden, without having to go ballistic or sue him in court. She is an awesome female character. We need more writing like that.
It puts the lotion in the basket...
If The Silence of the Lambs was released today, I think the Drinker would probably call it woke. Think about it - she's shown finishing top of her class throughout her FBI training despite being the only woman there, and then pretty much every scene in the movie has her interacting with some creepy misogynist man who leers at her and flirts weirdly - the scenes with Dr Chiltern for example. The main bad guy is a sexually-confused male who specifically kills women because he's jealous of them. Even the camera angles used are all done to make the viewer feel uncomfortable in the presence of dangerous males, as we always see their faces close up as they look directly into the camera.
I watched SoTL for the first time recently, and was pleasantly surprised by how great of a lead Clarice is. I feel like I never hear her name as much when it comes to “strong female leads.” Personal favorite part is her figuring out that she was taking to Buffalo Bill, and when he retreats to his basement, instead of calling for back up she (literally) goes feet first into Hell, choosing instead to pursue him.
@R W I loved that Lara as well.
Even though she was skinny & not like her predecessor (big jugs & peach) but still had her own charm & stood out.
I LOVED Lara Craft in the rebooted game series Squarenix put out a while back. She was this 45kg woman alone on a Island full of bulked up, heavily armed pirates. So she never really went punch for punch with any of them. Your combat moves were all clever improvisations. She could shoot an arrow into an armoured up guy's leg, then brain him with a rock. That animation of the skinny protagonist snarling with desperate rage as she whole body smashed a rock into the head of a much bigger opponent made me absolutely believe that if I tried to fight Lara, I was coming away from it with a skull fracture.
It also makes you root for her as a hero, because she's so hopelessly outmatched but keeps coming up a winner through sheer grit and determination. She doesn't get to stay clean and pretty. She ends up with mud caked into her hair, grime and blood all over her face, her clothes have rips and tears. She's a beast! It was just so well done.
I guess audiences want to see a hero that struggles against a real obstacle.
Diverging from the villain theme, the best female character I've seen is Misato Katsuragi from Evangelion. She is deeply flawed, not a man-hating bull dyke and not immune from romantic advances, yet an incredible leader and guardian of the most useless main character in any fiction - Shinji Ikari. She was easily the best and most interesting character for me in that Anime.
If not for the trinity of Georges writing, David Prowses physical portrayal, and finally James Earl Jones voice bringing out Vaders eloquent menace. I don't think Vader would have become one of the greatest Villains in cinema.
So if Vader wasnt Vader he wouldnt be vader?..
It’s crazy how count dooku and Darth maul who barely have any screen time are better villains than any of the sequel villains
Dooku was more powerful than Anakin and kicked his ass and chopped off his arm. Or melted it off, whatever lightsabers do...removed Anakin's arm. Only Yoda was able to save Obi and Ani from Dooku. And later, Anankin grew more skilled but still needed more power to beat Dooku, It was only the fact that Anakin became more powerful than Dooku in the last moment; but only due to character flaw; his need for revenge - which enabled Anakin to harness the dark side that made him unmatched in battle until Luke turned him back.
The clone wars and tales of the jedi shows.
@Matthew van Duyn Lol imagine calling TCW terrible and Rebels "really really good".
Sounds on the verge of being bait.
That's true!!!
@Matthew van Duyn i think your a little confused
One of the rare good villains these days is Homelander. He is a really good villain for sure. Strong, intimidating, ruthless, unpredictable.
Only 3 seasons in and he's already losing his bite.
What about Omni-Man?
Agreed, but also an example of how to do villainous weakness and insecurity RIGHT.
His various psychological issues make him MORE intimidating because they keep him on a hair-trigger and make it impossible to know whether attempts to reason or negotiate with him will work this time, but he's also intelligent enough that you know trying to manipulate him via those weaknesses has a very good chance of backfiring, and those weaknesses are sufficiently well-justified by his backstory that you don't feel like he's a born pathetic loser.
It's proof that you can have a complex villain, including massive emotional weaknesses, and still have them be fearsome antagonists provided you get the other aspects of the writing right (and get a good enough actor to play them; Homelander could be a total failure as a character if his actor wasn't so perfect for the role).
@French Toasttrue, that always happens tho.
Hopefully 4/5 regains traction.
Too bad the writing in the show took a nose dive in season two
The saddest thing is that Kylo - even though he's an inadequate villain - actually is a more interesting character than all the protagonists...
i wish kylo was a ''secret agent'' from the begininng embracing the dark side to infiltrate and eleminate the last ''evils'' sacrficing his own father to persue his mission a mission beyond him, for the greater good. we could have see him struggle to stay in the right path even tho he has to do some cruelties to cover his secret mssion
He is the protag...
He keeps losing until he wins/achieves his goal at the end.
thats not much to brag about. a worm i. the ground is more compelling than rey or finn
Which in the vacuum of the other Protagonists is barely even mentionable...
@folgore1 FOLGORE IS THE INVENCIBLE
One of the main problems from movies is that there are too many jokes in them you cant take anything seriously in it because every minute there is this stupid joke that is never funny you can have jokes in a movie but there is always so many jokes that like I said you can’t take anything seriously in a movie
Thor: love and thunder in a nutshell
"The problem with good guys, is that they have to follow the rules. Bad guys make their own rules"
Lest we forget behind the mask buried in there is Anakin Skywalker which intensifies the intrigue for Vader tenfold
Until we met him in the prequels lol
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Again, thank you for employing simple logic to show how limiting, boring, and sexist modern films have become.
"If your antagonist starts out weaker than the hero, then what the fuck is there left to strive against?" - Possibly the most succinctly perfect and true statement about the problem I've ever heard. There are so many aspects to strength, and these days villains seem to have incredible weaknesses written into them.
Also could be something else. Maybe the villain is a pitiful fighter by himself, but has terrifying legions as his command and can stay out of the hero's reach once he understands that the protagonist is stronger than he is. Then the journey of the hero becomes one not to outpower his nemesis, but to finally outsmart him. there is a reason villains like Lex Luthor and the joker work despite them being much weaker than they hero they oppose in a fight.
@Zielak2397 Zuko actually shows basic competence most of the time. He's defeated more often by cleverness and luck than by his own failings, though his failings tend to cause lots of trouble for him.
It is clear the left is more interested in weakness than strength. You need both, but strength, not only physical, needs to be emphasized in an a figure of action.
DONT YOU SEE? WOMAN DEMANDS ARE KILLING HOLLYWOOD AND THEIR PROFIT MARGINS? BAD FOR THEN CAUSE I WONT BE GIVING MY MONEY TO THEN BOTH WOMAN AND HOLLYWOOD
@Jeremy Geller That oddly reminds me of a certain man who has a thing for hands.
Hans Gruber is one of the best villains ever. Change my mind. He was smooth, confident and formidable. He was just as witty as the hero. He matched McClane's brawn and prowess with his brain. He was portrayed by an *excellent* actor who displayed a realistically malicious villain.
Ho ho ho. Now i have a machine gun!
I love Hans Gruber, but he did make an amateurish mistake right in the beginning by including a pair of brothers on his team. You don't want people on your team with divided loyalties, and in the end, it was Karl's devotion to his brother that ended up defeating Hans.
He was indeed. Im not gonna change your mind
It's not Christmas until Hans Gruber screams !
@SorcererWaluigi Heck ya! Darth Vader is a classic villain. Excellent pick.
That was absolutely the best analysis of the subject!
IMO, the "new-age-villains" appear so impotent and inept -
simply because if they were anything above that, then it
would expose the "heroes" as an empty fake shells that
they are. It's back to Hans Andersen, the dress for the King.
Maybe the villains are the actual heroes.
Captain marvel is definitely no hero.
She is like the actor who plays her absolutely evil.
A hero is only as good as the villan he's up against.
The first time I realized this was, James Bond's Goldfinger. I'll never forget the part where Bond is tied up on a table with a laser beam slowly moving towards his junk and he yells out "Do you expect me to talk? And Goldfinger says "No, I expect you to die Mr. Bond"
I'm a true feminist...
In fact, when i play cyberpunk 2077, i treat female NPCs with the same, utter brutality, i give to male ones.
I’ve come to cynically believe shitty villains are a purposeful choice to allow for easy wins. As you put it, the better the villain, the note competent and complex our hero must be, and the bigger the payoff. But to beat Vader, you needed a vastly complex character like Luke. Competent writing can navigate the difficult task of having our hero lose with purpose and overcome such a strong character. Thing you’ve harped on ad nauseam but I truly think lately writers are confusing cheap payoffs with good ones.
easy wins only if female against them,, thanos..beat 3 powerful men....lost to 1 female who quite frankly was immediately overpowered..and thanos underpowered
@Zedekiah Takali "But I need to go to Tashi station to buy some power converters", pronounced in an intonation so whiny I almost thought something was wrong with my sound settings when I first heard it in English? The entire sinking X-Wing sequence? "I can't fight my own father", when said father's fatherhood is, to put it mildly, purely biological but not social? Whiny. Teenager.
And, while "side character in his own story" would be an overstatement, he is not really allowed decisions of his own. He disobeys his mentors twice (once in Episode IV when he goes after his guardians, once when he leaves Dagobah) and the first time was inconsequential except as a warning that his mentor was right while in the second time he immediately pays with his hand. Otherwise he is led through his own story by others. For all Dumbledore's manipulations, he would just facepalm off such a direct "I'm right so shut up and do as I say": he preferred to raise his Chosen One so that his (Harry's) choices would align more naturally with his (Dumbledore's) goals.
@Dougie Buckets Is that really so bad? Yeah I agree hes not the most complex character, but in a industry filled with people constantly trying to reinvent the wheel is being simple really that bad?
@Дмитрий Зеленский Whiny, really that's the best you can come up with? When was he ever whiny? Emotional maybe but not whiny, and unlike modern main characters Luke isn't a side character in his own story like you seem to think.
@Shady Mello star wars worked because every character had a story to tell and they all flowed together in a way that made sense. Vader was fighting his fear for the emperor and his love for his son. Luke was willing to sacrifice himself to save his father, but was unwilling let leia be sacrificed. Han was fighting against his smuggler ways, but from the moment Leia came into the picture he was doing everything he can not to leave her. Leia was a badass woman and I didn't have to constantly hear for three movies that she was a woman, like I do with every other female protagonist these days. The sith were so powerful that great force users were hiding off the grid from them. There wasn't a moment where you didn't think the villains had every advantage in the book. Its what mare star wars so damn great.
I actually loved the idea of Kylo Ren being a Vader Wannabe.
It would have paid off so well if Rey became the real bad guy.
It would have been a profound moment of character development to have him embrace the strengths and virtues of his grandfather.
Rey is the bad guy.
Kylo is the tragic hero.
That is what the story would indicate.
The hero is supposed to lose until they win at the end.
The best example of an insecure and conflicted villain is Zuko from Avatar the last Airbender. He was allowed to have a long and satisfying redemption arc, and when he wasnt intimidating anymore it was fine because there were still scarier villains like Azula and the firelord.
The Final Agni Kai wasn’t about who would be Fire Lord. That Zuko would be victorious was a foregone conclusion. The real fight was between Azula and Katara, two forms of femininity, the toxic and the supportive, and to which the destined king would align himself during his rule.
@Someone Agreed, Zuko moving to save Katara is a pivotal moment for his character as it shows his new/regained lost priorities and that he was prepared to pay the ultimate price for what he felt was right. If it was Feminism, Zuko would've been slapped about instead of holding his own. Then Katara stepped in to finish the job. With some random quip about 'now we fight, woman to woman' or some shit you'd get in a marvel flick.
@Clemens Auburger the reason he lost was when azula attacked katara he sacrificed himself to save her that is all. Dont attatch meaning to the fight that wasnt there. This fenimism crap wasnt blowing up when this show released
Yeah. Zuko kind of ruined villains, because now every hack writer and short-sighted studio executive wants to have their own Zuko. Problem is, _Zuko doesn't fucking work without the goddamn Fire Lord!_
@Matthew van Duyn This is unfortunately true and hard to escape from. The invincible woman juggernaut is a clichee now of which often multiple instances can be found within the same TV series or comic. Azula, Ty Lee and Toph from Avatar are coming to my mind. There are also Zeetha and Bangladesh Dupree from Girl Genius.
As soon as I heard the, "Who talks first?"' Line I felt like I was watching one of those Judd Apatow flicks with awkward dialogue. Then when Starkiller was revealed it hit me that I was watching a fucking remake...
"What would Captain Marvel be without Brie Larson?"
LMAO I burst out, with that one. And I don't do that often.
better
good
We live in a world in which a fan made movie with no budget is way more satisfying than billion dollars Hollywood movies
Astartes ❤️
Uganda's first action packed movie?
@Renz Manzano only if thetre was somebody with A BUDGET LIKE HOLLYWOOD
This is exactly why I prefer to watch Pitch Meeting instead of the crap garbage coming out of Hollyweird.
Thats precisely what turn them in shit: too much money
This is one thing I really liked in the first Avengers movie. Black Widow was competent and useful; all the way up to the end, but there were also several scenes where she was obviously totally out of her league (basically whenever she and Bruce Banner were within arm's length of each other,) and sometimes, even just plain scared. It added some much-needed humanity to her character to show that she was still capable of that.
@C Miller G
Keep in mind, BW is an *enhanced* human. I'm not going to say that none of those scenes could have played out any better, but at least she was shown to be capable of fear, which is something you don't get from Galadriel when facing a similar-sized threat. If every time a female character showed competence and calmness, it made her a Mary Sue, Sarah Connor, Android 18 and Samus Aran would all be Mary Sues. Also, the question of what's believable or unbelievable is very person-relative when you're dealing in superhero fiction, or any kind of fiction in which some characters are far more experienced than others. It's not a relevant question anyway, on the topic of whether a character seems to have human limits or vulnerabilities. Also, she wasn't unarmed. She had a chair.
I disagree. Her escape from her first villain is unbelievable... The ol "unarmed woman vanqishes a group of armed men" routine. Similar to what the new, badass Galadriel of Amazon fame does. When movies do these things, they make it very difficult to suspend disbelief. Easier to do that with an Italian opera when it takes a dying hero five minute to die while belting out an aria.
Here her man! I couldn't have said it any better. Every point you made it accurate bud. Great video
In my opinion, a villain doesn't have to be able to keep calm in a situation, sometimes a villain that has random bursts of anger can inspire a fear of when they may strike next. They can still be intelligent and threatening as a villain should be, just easily provoked. I know that some media has had such a villain, but I cannot recall.
Hades from Disney’s Hercules, anger that literally flares up and showcases how strong he is.
Hopper from A Bug's Life counts too, with everyone including his allies fearing his anger outbursts.
Currently marathoning Game of Thrones. That description describes several antagonists. Notably Joffrey Lannister and Ramsay Bolton.
@1176Lucius Or Joaquin Phoenix's Joker.
Like Jack Nicholson and Ray Winstone in The Departed
Kilgrave in Jessica Jones, man was that an amazing villain.
Here you have a woman who's super strong, and you give her a villain that can't just be beaten to a pulp. An amazing pairing.
Jessica as a character was also well written, as she had many flaws as a person.
Ah the good old days when Hollywood was still able to tell good stories.
Yes!! Just finished Season 1 and halfway through Season 2 and Killgrave was utterly terrifying. That show and the characters are written so well, I wish She-Hulk writers would take serious notes
Considering how ridiculously powerful Rey is, the Disney trilogy should've made *her* the villain. It could've been a Negative Change Arc, as we'd see her fall to the Dark Side and Kylo Ren would evolve into the hero the story needed. *That* would've been *way* more interesting that what we actually got.
@Luke Bell indeed and actually making a good storyline is about 15th on the priorities list behind all the woke crap and CGI effects
I predicted this was the plan, and hoped for it. There are elements in the Rise of Skywalker which suggest it was considered.
The last jedi really messed it all up. Palatine return was great in ep 9 but he should have appeared in 8 and began to taunt Rey.
Have her fully turn to the dark with him would have been epic and completely against type. Sometimes the villains have to win.
You then have your chance to write 10-12 and bring her down with a new hero.
@Darth Revan Look at the hair.
She does not have the protag hair.
Yeah, I mean, she's Palpatine's granddaughter. Her power comes too easily (compare her to Yoda's description of the Dark Side in ESB) Its all right freakin' there.
@I am a cat person Every women in the the second film of the sequel trilogy is evil.
That is just how reality is.
Then again, maybe some of the porgs are female.
General Holdo, captain pink hair, is either evil, beyond incompetent, or both.
3.1 million views, hopefully one of those people was a film director
You have to admit Adam driver still did an outstanding job trying to make Kylo Ren work
He's far too goofy to portray such a villain. I hope like hell the rumors of marvel ruining Doom by casting him aren't true.
@*Insert funny name here* he tried, but he didn’t pull it off. No one could, the character was such a laughable villain, I would even say Jar Jar Binks bad.
He’s got good acting ability. You have to be when you’re that ugly, but I thought the character was just awful along with the entire movie.
@*Insert funny name here*
Are you illiterate ?
He was absolutely unable to, due to the reasons that I listed.
Did you even read my comment ?
@Phil Wilson yeah. That’s my point. He was given a terrible character but tried his best to make it work. Which he did to an extent. Did you even read my comment?
A good contrast for me would be General Hux vs Grand Moff Tarkin.
Let's leave aside how great an actor Peter Cushing was - Tarkin was a guy you took seriously.
He was always in control, and was willing to commit atrocities in the name of the empire, but always did so in a calm, professional manner. That cold professionalism added to his air of menace, and even Vader would take orders from him.
Now look at Hux.
Constantly bickering with Kylo Ren, betrays the First Order just to get back at him, and is generally impossible to take seriously.
When he's addressing the stormtroopers on Starkiller base, he's screaming and chewing the scenery so much, I thought his eyes were going to pop out.
And when Poe starts popping 'yo mama' jokes at him, I knew we were in trouble with Last Jedi 🙄
People forget that only 3 people ever dared to talk down to Vader: Palpatine, Tarkin and Leia... but she wasn't a strong woman according to certain people...
8:25-8:37 This description could also be attributed to Scar from The Lion King. He has a childish view of what it means to be king and is quick to lash out when his ability as a king is questioned. However, what makes him a good villain in spite of, or maybe even because of that, is that he poses a legitimate threat to the hero, Simba. He is able to manipulate Simba to think he's guilty for killing his father and, before that, is able to manipulate Simba to going into the elephant graveyard, in order to get him into a trap to kill him. Not to mention, he's able to come up with a plan to get Mufasa into a situation where he can kill him quite easily. Not to mention that, for as childish and pathetic as he becomes once he becomes king, he's still incredibly dangerous, as these qualities mean he's willing to let everyone suffer and die under his rule.
He is exactly correct. This is beyond a trope by now.
When I first saw come out of that ship and freeze that blaster bolt I thought he was so cool and I thought hux was a space nazis with his fervour and rage then they got made into a laughing stock
Yup
@A You Tube Commenter Like I said, I don't know how. Maybe Loki finds a way to outwit her and beat her in some weird Asgard loophole and tells Thor about it. Like I said, it's just not going to be enjoyable or cathartic to watch Thor beat Hela to death. You can make the female villain physically dominant in the start of the movie, but it's never going to be satisfying to watch a beefcake like Chris Hemsworth beat the shit out of Cate Blanchette, regardless of her power level.
@Ryan What would be a better route?
In the case of Thor: Ragnarok, I don't know how you end that movie. Because I don't want to watch Thor crush a woman's skull with a hammer. But having Surtur just beat her because no one wants to see Chris Hemsworth beat Cate Blanchett within an inch of her life, even if she did that to him at an earlier point in the movie, is not a good alternative.
"A hero is only as strong as the villain they defeat."
Well said.
I rewatched this after having just sat through "Birds of Prey." All I can say is, the roles are officially reversed. The "heroes" are narcissistic, over powered, villains, themselves whose greatest act of heroism is never facing the consequences of their actions.
"No man can be stronger than a woman in a fight"
Thanos: *Literally claps every female hero up until the final snap*
Uma Thurman's character from Kill Bill would be a great example of a good female hero who went through struggles.
I'll throw out a few more for ya (though abbreviated with the specific example):
Mulan (the 98 animated one)
Sarah Connor (first two Terminators)
Ripley (First two Aliens)
Fighting a Mary Sue is probably the biggest challenge our antagonists face, but all his problems would’ve been fixed if he was made into the protagonist like he should’ve been and Rey the bad guy that he overcomes
The woke rules for writing are kind of the exact opposite of the old "how to tell a story 101" books/advice. Wonder why they plotz?
Perfect analysis.
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Thanos looked the most powerful person in the MCU in the eyes after being stabbed in the chest by a giant axe and said "You should've gone for the head"
The coolest thing about Vader in the first film was he was even an outcast by the Imperials who either looked down upon his supernatural beliefs or were just plain too scared of him to associate, leaving him truly isolated and working directly for the antagonistic cause with no other motivations. A true black knight character more than the typical evil general archetype.
If we are talking about the first Star Wars, then why not mention the other great villain, the one man who gets away with telling Vader off: Tarkin. And let us not forget that he was the one who ordered the destruction of Alderaan in the first place
Yes! A true black knight! That is the best way to describe him.
nice observation, and true
@E- tan Vader prefer order and respecting Tarkin's command is order. He do hower show little patience for incompetence such as Admiral Ozzel not sticking to the plan and attacking the rebel base on Hoth on his own. Ozzel was an incompetent glory hound and paid the ultimate price for it.
@Michael Pettersson because they were in Tarkin's territory. While there, the last word on any decision is made by Tarkin, unless the Emperor himself steps in. Even Vader is outrankedthere, but should they step into a place outside Tarkin's territory, Vader outranks him.
The boys is a rare example of a show produced by a large mainstream production company that somehow manages to introduce kickass female, bisexual, black, straight, ugly, beautiful and weird characters in a way where they are all interesting and everyone has their own struggle to fight
They straight up had the female beat a guy who can use a move that gets rid of your powers and have her fall off a building then survive .Also had Homelander struggling to beat her.Garbage show produced by far leftist Seth Rogen that will get worse. The show isn’t your friend.
@Aaron Webb thanks for that. Going to go read Postman’s writing now
Now that we are coming to an age of merged orwellian and huxleyian nightmare, constantly attacked from one side by plain dictatorial external threats, and from the other side by corporate greedy control freaks diguising themselves as liberals,
Now we are fucked. For good.
Would it not be for nuclear apocalypse and - more realistically - climate and biospheral collapse, I'd say let the blatantly evil guys win, we will always have time to defeat them later from the inside.
But now with the global potentially apocalyptical issues I laid out just earlier, well... I can't figure out a good and nice ending.
We are fucked, the only sad part is that trees and animals are too. That we fuck ourselves up is one thing. But we destroyed innocent lives with us, and this is the real sad part.
I know it seems irrelevant to this movie critic, but it is not. I have no energy left in me to explain how, but it does.
It also showcases the issues inherent to corporate and governmental powers merging, and the dangers of blind hero worship to a society.
Great show. Can't watch it, too depressing. Reminds me of the first three times I tried to read Brave New World, I kept getting super upset that the book warning us not to become what we are was pointing out exactly what we're doing wrong.
"We were keeping our eye on 1984. When the year came and the prophecy didn't, thoughtful Americans sang softly in praise of themselves. The roots of liberal democracy had held. Wherever else the terror had happened, we, at least, had not been visited by Orwellian nightmares.
"But we had forgotten that alongside Orwell's dark vision, there was another - slightly older, slightly less well known, equally chilling: Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. Contrary to common belief even among the educated, Huxley and Orwell did not prophesy the same thing. Orwell warns that we will be overcome by an externally imposed oppression. But in Huxley's vision, no Big Brother is required to deprive people of their autonomy, maturity and history. As he saw it, people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.
"What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us.
"This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right."
From "Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business" by Neil Postman.
I think Kylo would've been better if he grew become increasing threat, become more competent and less childish over time, creating an actual challenge between him and Rey.
But they wouldn't do that, either lack of skills or deliberately making Rey look superficially better.
gotta say maxwell lord wasnt a good example for this. the rest followed but why would he need to be intimidating? you should have been talking about cheeta not him.
god, you are so right. thank you for saying it
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I'll never forget seeing endgame, and laughing my ass off when the audience cheered at Thanos punching Captain Marvel. That really said it all for me.
@S A lmao i don't even watch star wars but i am agree with him lol.
@Truck guy He’s another film critic channel and the Drinker frequently does streams with him. His first video I watched was him Captain Marvel one, and for the entire he video he calls her “Plank” which is why I thought you watched his video.
@CrazyYellowShadow it's cool. What is that? If they dislike her too then I may like it.
@Truck guy Oh, whoops!
@CrazyYellowShadow no I honestly don't know what that is.
Holy shit that was the perfect desciribtion of Kilo Ren.
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I'm using your videos as writing advice. Your way of explaining things has really helped me understand what traps to avoid, and how to provide a certain suspense that would validate the motivations of my heroes and villains. You might be a reviewer, but your complaints have a depth than modern journalism can't match. In short, thank you.
I actually never thought about how in Thor ragnarok, they never did show Thor beating hela, which was what should have logically happened based on the flow of narratives.
@TWO_point_0 Why are u running defense for marvel's sh *tty writing? I swear, some people can do all kinds of mental acrobatics to make the world be how the want it. I actually envy that.
One of drinker's criticisms was that men were not able to beat women also in wits or intelligence. Thor may have not beat Hela in a physical fight but he absolutely outwitted her, so he ultimately won, although not in your typical 'I save the world and everything is rosy at the end' way. But there is nonetheless still hope left for Thor and team. I fail to see how that ending is still classed alonside the other feminist tropes.
I think it was much more of a story for Thor to overcome Mjolnir being destroyed and he was also fighting the Goddess of Death, who was an intimidating villain. Also she is also technically immortal so the destruction of Asgard would’ve been the only way to defeat her. I don’t think they gave Hela feminism armor on this one. Could be wrong tho
I agree, earlier in the movie they showcase how skilled thor is at close quarters combat when he was beating the hulk in the gladiator arena, but then they just brush it aside later in the movie.
I feel like the writers were conflicted on how to portray Kylo. It seems like they wanted him to be a secondary protagonist with his bursts of rage and immaturity seen as a character flaw he has to figure out how to overcome, and ironically, losing to the heroes every time he faces one set it up for more character development than what they did for Rey.
There's a reason People cheered when Thanos punches the shit out of Captain Marvel
@Jail cat Jones fricking whiny crybabies
And why we booed at the pandering, shoehorned "all women girl power" moment
kind of sad when a hero is hated more than a universally genocidal villain
I sighed with relief. I thought she was going to triumph over Thanos at first.
I didn't see Captain Marvel, so I don't know her character buffs at all. I did see practically every other movie in the 20-ish Avengers-verse, though. Thanos possessing literally universe-altering power, Thor being an actual god, and then some humans good with a bow and a nerd in a fancy suit... The power leveling is all over the place and I couldn't take any of it seriously, then comes random, never-before-mentioned Space Lady, and suddenly Thanos is a one-hitter-quitter. Nope. Can't do it. Spent probably 50 hours of my life with you explaining these characters arc, motivations, strengths and weaknesses, and then just "thwack" and it's all over. Everyone else might as well have just stayed home that day and let C.M. woosh in and save them.
I very much appreciate that Darth Vader is the standard for a well written villain.
"...you need to give the villians their balls back." Well said sir.
The Gary Oldman villainous corrupt detective character in the professional person does what a perfectly fleshed out villain should be❤ and now he is once again being that complex villain again in Slow Horses❤😊
He's also an incredible villain in Dracula : both evil and conflicted by his past. Really talented actor.
“Easily brushed aside when the script decides it’s time for them to lose” is the best articulated point about how disingenuous modern film villains have become.
Villains are formidable, there is a reason why Darth Vader walks slow and it’s because he moves for no one.
Eowyn from "The Lord of the Rings" is a female character who scores the greatest single-combat victory by any human in the entire saga. Not one of the male heroes scores a one-on-one win on par with defeating Sauron's right hand man, the immortal Witch King (admittedly, she had help from Merry, but while his heroism made victory possible, Eowyn still had to actually go out and win- she had to kill a freaking dragon before she could even take a shot at the SOB). And she does this all while protecting the body of King Theoden. Protecting the body of a your fallen king from capture and mutilation was the most noble thing an Anglo-Saxon warrior could do, so she is excelling in a variety of traditionally male roles all without magically making the men incompetent, sacrificing her femininity, or coming across as a "Strong Female Character".
And she was written by a deeply conservative Catholic man with zero interest in any feminist agenda. Oh, the delicious irony.
That wasn't a dragon she killed. It was a fell beast.
@USBearForce I really like your points and the way you word things 👍
My analysis, is that Eowyn fights for those she loves and cares for and not be left as a bystanding watching her world crumble (which we can all relate to). For me, it's a very relatable, human experience on a lesser scale for our own lives and the conflict we feel when placed in difficult, scary situations that question whether we have the right courage and clear motivation and reasoning to go into said situation.
As some who hates SJW, this is not it. It would be such a weak attempt for someone to try and denigrate her character to that of an sjw when Eowyn is seeing those she loves slaughtered and her world crumbling. We have been shown numerous times her frustration to be a passive bystander in the cells with the women, waiting for certain painful death, unarmed, should the men fail, is a completely understandable reaction. She's not trying to outsmart or degrade her male counterparts, heck, her motivation comes from wanting to help and contribute for them in their endeavours in a more active way.
One of the things I love about lord of the rings is almost all of the characters are at least worried they could die. Now lots of characters don't give a shit even with millions of bullets flying past them, even the ones with no bulletproof powers don't care there is a bunch of bullets getting fired at them lol.
@Blake Johnson True. But that's become a meme rather than a possibility. Eowyn was written by a man that respected the story arc and sure, maybe it was a nod to girls reading the stories but that's fine. She wasn't put in there for the sake of her being there. She had a reason and the result was awesome.
@Shendue We are talking about the modern era with Tolkien, but it’s never been as bad as outsiders make out and a lot of it is just Protestant spin. No stretch about it, I suggest maybe you spend time with them directly. It has everything to do with Mary and Eve both and other female figures. Time to get with the times, and even in Tolkien's day women were respected far more than people want to think. Women are not allowed to be Pope or priests as men are reserved to be the source of spiritual life; women OTOH are acknowledged equally in the role of sole physical life givers (quite important you would agree), that however is not putting them in a second class status but an equal one. It’s acknowledged because Christ didn’t employ women as such BUT absolutely he hung with them as equals and took their opinions and respect very seriously (whether or not some followers did). Supporting monogamy and emphasizing marriage is also a direct pointer to inherent respect for women in Catholicism starting day one. We do not believe in women as “lesser created creatures” as some do. Polygamists most definitely class women on a lower level. To suggest this is some effect of radicalization speaks of sheer ignorance of what the actual religions believe. Nowhere in Christianity does it explicitly advocate beating your wife for instance. I honestly think you really don’t know that much internally about the belief systems actually work.
If there's something I've learned as I continue to age and grow in this time period, it's that everyone who once strived for equality decided that it either wasn't given to them quickly enough, or that it simply wasn't enough.
Almost no one wants true neutrality and true equality, these days. Everyone wants to be special and everyone wants to be treated differently. But rather than earn it, they feel _entitled_ to it because of their ancestry or the way things went in a relatively distant past. And unfortunately, big companies like to bend over backward to these kinds of people because they are - or were - the "unspoken minority".
Give people an inch and they'll take a mile. 🤷♀
"what happened to our villains?"
They entered the real Life, became woke and destroy one Franchise after another.
Not to Mention Society and pretty much every Aspect of it.
Morgoth wrote the Rangz O’ Pwr 😂 Palpatine wrote and directed Episodes VII-IX ;D
A good edit to Kylo would be he would keep his entire mask on for Episode 7 and when Rey slashed his face we could see his eyes, making more mystery around the Kylo Ren, and explaining why Kylo didn’t freaking die when Rey slashed his face open.
this is why I end up rooting more for villains nowadays, a lot of them became the underdog. The roles are reversed and so is the effects of the characters.
I would love to hear your thoughts about Commodus who has many of the same human characteristics as Kylo Ren. But, is much more frightening maybe because he actually wields and uses true power.
One of the best villains, partly because Joaquin Phoenix did an outstanding job, but also because he understands how to manipulate others with the power and wealth he controls. He's not afraid to sell Rome's future for his own gain. Despite his ruthlessness and occasional emotional outbursts, the audience sees he can be competent in holding on to power which creates a real problem for the protagonists to overcome. Kylo on the other hand just seems incompetent as a person and leader, so poses no real threat. His only saving grace might be proficiency with a light saber, but he wasn't even given that.
We need more people in the world like this man, logical yet polite and isn’t lost in the “woke” or appeasing culture society today tends to glorify to its own detriment. Well done man
There is actually enough people like this, just look at this whole comment thread. The problem is that the creators choose to listen to the loud "woke" minority instead.
I really thought Kylo was going to be the protagonist, imagine how much more interesting the point of view of an uncertain and unstable Sith as he commits atrocities to further confuse himself and his connection to the Dark Side and then attempt to find redemption. Instead of Disney trying to retcon Rey as the "savior of the galaxy". Or Rey end up becoming a power hungry villain that Kylo has to stop, that would really justify how inherently strong she is at least a little.
I remember reading that a great villain is made by making them the hero of their story. The villains from the past fit that perfectly. Most actors wanted those roles because they had more meat to them. But this newest crop is embarrassing. Loved that you compared Darth to Kylo. Those first few minutes of The Force Awakens were amazing. Kylo came in strong and I remember the Storm Troopers executing the innocent with no missed shots. Finally! Here was an Empire (okay, the First Order) to be feared! And then... not so much.
With Snoke I thought, okay that's the purpose of Kylo, to show him not at Darth's level but trying to get there with all his faults. That could have been interesting. But as you showed, "we have Snoke at least... Oops, no we don't.) Lol. So our big bad is Kylo? I never feared him. He was a joke. Just a matter of time to take him down. And going on for 3 movies was too long.
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I was on an elevator at a sci-fi convention. We're all on our way down to the late night parties, when the elevator stops, the doors glide open, and frickin Darth Vader steps on, turns to face the doors, and never speaks a word.
The whole elevator went silent.
It was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. Everybody *knew* that it was just a nerd in a costume, but it didn't matter. His presence was simply that *imposing*.
Would've been even more intimidating if they were breathing slowly and heavily
Great story! I'm 6'6" tall, and suppose I would make a convincing/imposing Darth Vader if wearing a screen accurate costume . . .
Well played, u never know if he would have forced choked everyone in that elevator just because one person spoke out of line..
I was walking down the street in winnipeg and the general lee tore around a corner-blasted the horn whistling dixie-then sped off.......
lmao
I think the issue falls with so many writer's trying to help you reason with and understand the villain. with negan from the walking dead, after everything he did, they want you to sympathize with him and feel bad. Like no mf i wanted a badass villain for the sake of them being a badass, i dont wanna feel sorry for someone i should fear
I like the point you make about where is the threat of a villain when you allow others to throw snarky comments at them unchallenged. Almost as if it’s a joke. Well that’s it. We live in a modern society where everything is turned into a joke/meme. They want to inject humor into scenes not to enhance the lore but rather in spite of it.
The fact that Kylo Ren takes his mask off it was probably due to the fact that he was an up-and-coming actor and wanted recognition more than he cared about how in doing so it was also destroying the mystique of the character.
I never realized why I can’t stand most modern movies.
a story is only as good as its villain and now I can understand that quote, I see a fair amout of my issues with these movies come from there shiity villains
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Ripley is a great example of a woman who isn't a goddess, she's just a normal person who overcomes impossible odds because of her will and wit
It was "woke", but it was well done.
@My Name... Rey's flaw was that We can't bow down to her greatness ...
If I had daughters I would rather that they looked up to Ripley or Sarah Connor. Not some Mary Sue like Rey or Carol Danvers....or Harley Quinn. DEFINITELY not Harley Quinn.
Lady D'Winter, Ellen Ripley, Valeria, Sarah Conner, the Bride-AKA Kiddo, Carol Peletier, these are the most original, real badass women (not mutants, not cyborgs, no supernatural powers) seen in movies and TV
My favourite female character by far.
Word of advice, don't scull a 750ml (about a pint) of Bundaburg rum at your 18th birthday. Being marched up and down the front yard to stay alive is not fun.. 😂🤣😂🤣
Excellent summary.
Really wish you'd review Alita: Battle Angel. It is a modern film that really does what you're talking about here. It actually has it's female lead get defeated before her growth. She has to build herself up from rock bottom, makes mistakes, and ascends them.
Personally, I thought Kylo Ren ended up becoming a great character, probably by accident. No, he wasn't that effective as a villain, but as a character, he had a fully developed and interesting story arc. He was obviously conflicted, and thought that by committing all sorts of evil, he'd find purpose and meaning for his life, only to realize that he'd never find it through the path he was on and that all he ever would be was a pawn for greater evil. At times you could hate him, other times you'd laugh at him, and sometimes he was almost sympathetic. Unlike Rey, he constantly struggled, failed, and got back up. His heel-face turn felt earned, and in the end, he felt like a fully fleshed out character.
He was the actual hero of the sequel series.
The sequel series still isn't good.
It’s cause Adam driver is a fantastic actor
Agreed! He's probably one of my favourite characters in Star Wars for that very reason.
You either die a villain or you live long enough to see your character get woke and get broke.
You eat too many memberberries
Or, you die a villain (Palpatine) but the woke director brings you back to life because he can't create his own villain.
Nice I could use this as a meme format
@Yours Truly too woke for me at least
the more spoiler answer:
Loki is sidelined by a female character, talks about his feelings, makes an unnecessary comment about his sexuality and there’s a contrived romantic subplot. Not to mention the series’ main goal of convincing him he should be a ‘better person’. not my cuppa
@nesbit I haven't watched it yet, is it woke?
The thing that makes Darth Vader so intimidating is that he was a jedi first. That’s where his composure comes from.
I actually do think Kylo Ren actually could have been a scary villain with his weakness. All they needed to do is make him make more evil choices on his emotional fits.
There really is nothing scarier than a full grown powerful men who act like whiny children all the time. They actually went this direction with Anakin occasionally in the prequels. Many didn’t like that because he’s supposed to grow up to be this composed monster. I think they really could have leaned into it with Kylo. Imagine Eustis Scrub from Narnia but actually dangerous. It would just make him really hard to respect when he turns back to the light side. Wouldn’t want writers to have to work that hard now would we?
Here is the thing: You can make an imposing, scary villian multiple ways. A cold, calculated, ruthless person can be scary. An impulsive, vengeful, unpredictable person can be scary. A driven but missguided person can be scary. A deranged megalomaniac can be scary.
What will NOT work as a trait for a villian whatsoever is incompetence. Villians by definition are people who WANT to do something that has negative moral consequences (Not nessecarly BECAUSE of those consequences, but in spite of them, like thanos for example.). Competence is the ability to make the changes you want to see happen actually happen.
So by definition, a villian that is incompetent is not very threatening, because they lack the ability to actually make the 'evil' thing they wanna see happen happen.
Which is why modern movies, which shy away from showing the villian outperform the hero - a sign of competence - cant create villians that feel scary (especially with that stupid male-female BS playing a part.)
In Ragnarok, I think the whole point is that Hela was basically too strong even for Thor, and that part of his character development was knowing when it would be worth to admit defeat, run away, and live to see another day. I also liked him realising that he would not be able to defeat her with strength or raw power.
Haven't seen it, but in the comics, Hel (Hela) essentially can't be defeated because she is the goddess of death. But Thor gets around her again and again by outwitting her. He never takes her on in battle because the only possible result is his death. He could "kill" her again and again, but as death itself, she is essentially indestructible. Kill her and she just rises again.
Have you seen Tenet? Good film if you want to feel intimidated by a villain. That dude had all the power in the world and was blind-sided to who he thought he had control over the most. Very satisfying to watch his downfall.
having only watched the first of the last SW trilogy, i wasnt that much dismissive of Kylo Ren: i felt his shortcomings and hesitations made him a more layered character and i would have been interested in having some sort of character development instead of just being a road block, it left me a bit more of uncertainty of what to expect from him. A villain that develops could make for something nice especially with enough screen time, and the whole antagonist Military group could have been enough to be a threat by itself to let Kylo take a bit more time to reach his peak, like a rival that wants to train harder and better than you. but the problem was he was made a non-issue by Rey Sue which surpass him without a modicum of effort. And sadly, i heard that development wasnt much happening in the later movies. If the balance would have been better, i think he could have been a more memorable antagonist.
I've always felt that it's because "heroes" are now the self-insert of the writer. One who often has an agenda. The villain then becomes the embodiment of what the writer hates. So, instead of Darth Vader we get whiny, screamy, tantrum-throwing pseudo nazis. Instead of Zuul, we get a sort of hateful and socially awkward incel. We get white men mansplaining their evil plans to the heroic women who have been given only x0.77 of the respect he has been given all their lives. All of which makes for really boring villains.
"I'm a big baby man/woman who wants to insert myself into the role of a hero with no comprehension of self-sacrifice, discipline, or self-improvement. So if I'm the hero then that means the villain is whatever personally upsets me...not like an abstraction or anything that represents something truly evil. A literal portrayal of someone with whom I would disagree on the Internet who isn't actually a direct antagonist to me beyond said disagreeing with me. Welp. Time to start stuffing this scarescrow...soon as I put change my adult diapers for the fifth time today."
@BWMagus wasnt trump friends with epistein/ he had a whole ass picture with him and all (before you think i am left biden is basically opena nd loud about the shit he say i am not right or left i am in the middle bc to me both sides suck ass)
The Empire in the original trilogy were originally based on Nazis. All of the original Star Wars is a conglomerate of WWII, the wild west, Christianity, Buddhism, and ancient Japan. Only in the Disney trilogy did they have to overexaggerate the space Nazis by having that ridiculous AH type speech in front of thousands of soldiers and banners/flags everywhere, as if the audience doesn't already know what they are based on
@rodtheworm Obama brought us nearly to the brink of war with Russia (Which would have been pretty much guaranteed to escalate to WWIII) by pissing its leaders off with his trademark blend of arrogance, self- righteousness and stupidity. In contrast, about a month or so after Trump was elected, Putin openly said he would seek peace with America at all costs (perhaps because he knew America would soon be getting a new president who was someone that shouldn't be f$$ked with?). Trump pulled us back from the brink of war before even starting his term!
@AKUJIRULE MY NEW FAN FILM. Check it out.
RISE OF THE EMPIRE kzclip.net/channel/UCZnaIFSP5ZYUM1NzF3zXWlQ
Imagine if Po had previously seen someone trying to backchat to Kylo instead, and Kylo just cut that guy off mid-sentence, force-choked him, crushed his wind pipe and threw his lifeless body aside. Then when he moves on to interrogate Po, the scene and the villain would feel a lot more intense.
Mostly agreeing with the guy and his report of the situation until he decide that the ONLY reason the problem exist is feminism.
The problem is media monopolies don't want to try new ideas or things that have even a remote chance of failing. They want to find the common denominator movie, the one they can repeat ad nauseum while still getting a box office on it, which result in very bland tropey movies. The woman can't lose against man trope is just so common because of that.
This is the real reason we don't get good villain anymore, because wish fulfillment is part of the common denominator thingy, and it can't happen if the hero struggle, which consequentially affect the antagonists as much as the plot.
The hero can't fail or struggle, so he win every fight, doesn't need to train, always get exactly what he intended to get, etc...
its crazy how whilst criticising kylo ren he figured out the exact point of kylo ren
Great essay! Although I'm pretty sure I disagree with Drinker politically, I agree here. I would like to acknowledge there are still artists making good-great films, you'll just be hard pressed to find it amongst major studios. Particularly those that virtue signal "the message" for prophet.
Darth Vader : "Sister, so you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her too. Obi-wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete. If you will not turn to the Dark side then perhaps she will."
Luke : *let's his rage take over*
- This is why Vader is the most legendary bad@ss villain in cinematic history, even in defeat he wins.
If you think about it through out the entire original triology, Vader never unintentionally lost. His defeat to Luke was intentional since he knew Luke's true potential is more powerful than him, but only if he's evil which is exactly what Vader wanted. And then he finally got his revenge on the man who absolutely ruined his life, Palpatine.
Lucas literally wrote in Leia as Luke's sister specifically for this scene. He certainly did a good job to bring out that super emotional moment that really gives your body the shivers as soon as Luke's light saber is drawn. But Vader pretty much loses his badass appearance in Return of the Jedi and is mostly off to the side as the Emperor steps in as the real villain. I think it's mainly because of the change in directors, as the story itself doesn't really make him all that weak.
@efnissien there’s a difference tho between the exception to the rule and and no rule. One person being able to talk to Vader as an equal shows that persons power, if everyone talked like an equal to Vader it would show Vader’s lack of power.
DONT YOU SEE? WOMAN DEMANDS ARE KILLING HOLLYWOOD AND THEIR PROFIT MARGINS? BAD FOR THEN CAUSE I WONT BE GIVING MY MONEY TO THEN BOTH WOMAN AND HOLLYWOOD
But he didn't win, he turned and killed palpatine
That's why we all watch anime now. The villains are often impossible to beat and it usually takes the main character about 4 years to come around to best them in a fight, only to find out that they were just a henchman. The hero often comes close to death on their first encounter with the villain, this defeat can be dragged on for weeks and months, and once they start giving the villains back story, you start to feel conflicted, because they often have good reason to be how they are, ridiculously cool, intelligent and calculating to a level way beyond our naive protagonist's ability. I would say it's "the message" that is ruining things, but it's more likely that people (young writers) think that it's easy to come up with creative, captivating storylines. What has become easy is creating cool shots and making things go boom, but that's not enough to capture an audience, it makes money because usually there's nothing else to watch.
Oh, there's plenty of other stuff to watch, and studios are making less and less money bc of that. There are just enough brain-dead npcs that support garbage and perpetuate the cycle. But you can only make so many dumpster fires before people catch on. I believe once the ai and tech reach the level where anyone can produce a film for cheap, perhaps in the next 10 years. there will be a film renaissance and hollywood will be seen as this obsolete institution. Think about how much cultural cache hollywood has lost in the last 20 years. These days, there are more stars born from independent creators on social media than hollywood. Synthesis engines are the future.
I just found this channel a few days ago and weirdly, you've been spot on about everything so far. I teach introductory film at a college and I just WISH I could show your vids to my college students.. but then someone would whine to my boss and my union would have to hire a lawyer... I guess what I'm saying is that although people *say* that college professors have autonomy and academic freedom, we don't. So there's that...
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I feel like kylo ren could have been a really good villain if there were actually competent writers at Disney
So true! I remember how I felt reading the red wedding and the absolute dismay I felt as my favourite characters were eviscerated.... almost threw my kindle at the wall! what it really did was make me fear for the rest of the characters as they were now genuinely vulnerable in a way I'd never felt reading fantasy before, and every obstacle overcome from then on felt like a genuine achievement (and relief)
The thing is that kylo being an immature, ineffective child was a really good starting point for the character. They just chose to never address it and grow from there. They decided to straight up just ignore it.
What's said is that My Hero Academia has the same premise, but does it a trillion times better than the Star War sequel trilogy. There's a noob hero and villain, both start off comically incompetent, but they slowly and surely become genuine badasses who grow as they have a back-and-forth struggle against one another. Tomura, the noob villain of this example, has the exact same character as Kylo Ren (an arrogant, whiny manchild with violent tantrums) but develops into a calculating, collected, careful monster who is competent enough to out-villain previous major villains before him.
That is what Kylo Ren SHOULD have been...but isn't. And never will be. And can't be.
Probably because the writing team were all immature, ineffective children.
Totally agree.. at first I thought his character would grow very strongly in the continuing films, but they never really did much with him … progressing toward good or evil. They did almost nothing
I have always said that Kylo Ren should have been Luke’s son. It would make a lot more sense name wise as why would Han and Leia name their son Ben after a man they barely knew?
Instead of Luke trying to murder him in his sleep maybe Ben is feeling pushed aside because Luke is so busy rebuilding the Jedi order. Maybe this is when Snoke starts influencing him having him the attention he craves.
This eventually results in Luke and Ben coming to blows and in the fight Luke’s wife gets killed by accident. Ben blames Luke and Luke blames himself and goes into exile during which the knights of Ren destroy the Jedi order.
@Death Waffle Yep - Phasma had awesome potential. Not only have we never really seen Storm Troopers as anything other than nameless/faceless henchmen - we've never seen a high ranking one or female Storm Trooper either. Her chrome armour looked cool too. They wasted this potential, sidelining her in the first movie and then killed her off unceremoniously in the second.
Finn had great potential as an ex-storm trooper and that aspect could have been explored in much more depth - but he became nothing more than a side show to Rey.
Kylo and Rey could have been interesting if they switched things up a bit. A really bold move would have been to let Rey fall fully to the dark side and let Kylo redeem his fall by coming back to the light to defeat her........but that wouldn't fit with the "sugar and spice and all things nice" narrative.
I think it'S always easy to look back and say "See, things used to be better in movies." However, the past has the advantage of you only remembering the highlights. If you pick the best movie per year, you'll have 10 movies from a decade, and when you compare them to 10 random movies of the thousands made annually, of course they're gonna be better in comparison.
Reality is, there's different types of villains, and modern day also has competent and threatening villains, whether it be from The Boys, or from Arcane. Hell, even Into the multiverse of madness has a technically op villain.
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